Mixed Routes

[rhunt]

Funny, this is beginning to sound like religion.

Or a cult

[TrueNorth]

I know, rhunt. But I don't want to hi-jack this thread. It is a good topic without me deviating it into philosophical issues of rules and ethics.

[ynot]

Bringing a route down to your level is unaceptable anywhere in the climbing community. If you don't like something, bring it to the Fa's attention.Like someone else said, they are open to suggestion. You still have the coice to climb or not to climb any given route and the guide tells you the risk factor. The only rude suprises I run into are loose blocks.

[Guest]

Pulling Pockets was dumb as a mixed route! It only needed one bolt to have been an exceptional mixed route! Now, it is simply a fun sport route. Just because an FA chose to do a route in a certain style doesn't mean he knew anything about anything. Anyone with a drill can drill. Drilling is like posting here, once you pull the trigger or hit submit you open yourself up to your peers. If you try to do a thoughtful job with either, they stand a better chance of turning out OK. Hell, just look at how many poorly place bolts there are. And not just in the Red. So just because someone did a route as mixed doesn't mean anything unless they did a good job at their creation. Believe me, it didn't take any more estrogen to lead Pulling Pockets as a mixed route. You could double and triple up on bomber gear instead of tusting an old rusted bolt! How an FA chooses to do a route is clearly an expression of what? Who knows? I often think, "What the hell were they thinking?" I think it would be cool if we could ask them. So, to say that Pulling Pockets was dumbed down makes no sense to me. To me it was dumb the way it was established. Not right or wrong, just not thoughtful.

[pigsteak]

rhunt..no rules brah? who are you to make the rule that there are no rules? and why can't I chop bolts, if I see a better style ahead? bolts are very arbitrary to start with, so now we are merely assuming that the first person to equip the route is the best judge of what quality is. that is a silly notion.

[Christian]

I like gum.

[Guest]

....... bolts are very arbitrary to start with, so now we are merely assuming that the first person to equip the route is the best judge of what quality is. that is a silly notion.

Arbitrary? I thought bolts were to keep you from DYING!!!

[Guest]

Pigsteak, there are accepeted "rules." Anyone with half a brain knows that. Why can't you chop bolts? Because if you did, anyone else with their "vision" of what is right could also chop. Then total chaos would ensue. So then, the starting point is with the FA. We ask. If the FA says OK, then OK. If he says no, then pout. If there were no FA's, then there would be no routes. It is my understanding that Pulling Pockets was redone with permission from the FA. Before you make a judgement call on someone elses route, put some up for us to "judge." You may find that your skin is thinner than you thought.

[pigsteak]

memebr,
ok, so JH puts up this "death" route, with the first bolt 20 feet off the ground. but with today's great invention of 40 ft stick clips, it is "safe". however, for those who do not possess a stick clip or the balls to run it up to that first bolt, it could be harrowing..are you saying if community sentiment is one more bolt lower, but JH says no way, then we have to respect that?

Since JH is a newbie at bolting routes (this being his first), you are saying that his "vision" is acceptable? I say nonsense.

(JH, this was all by the way of an analogy, so don't get your panties in an uproar.)

yes, JH, bolt placement is arbitrary...learn to place adequate gear, and you will see that sport routes are over bolted..they don't keep you from dying..they keep you from pissing your pants...Sport routes are for chicken monkeys.

[Guest]

Ray, we need to reprogram the forum bot. His shit-stirring table needs to be trimmed again.