Sporty sport lines allowed?

[Jeff]

Nick's a beast.

[der uber]

Love you guys

[lena_chita]

it is a game of decisions no doubt..every single sport route could be totally dumbed down with bolts every 2-3 feet...anyone want that?

as we start spreading out the bolt placements, we primarily are taking our own view of risk/ability/safety into consideration. personally when I bolt the line my primary question to myself is: how will a climber who is totally confident/competent and comfortable at this grade feel about the line. I do not bolt a 12a with an aspiring 11b climber in mind. if you are climbing one of my routes at your limit, dont expect a security blanket every 3 feet just because you are sketched. if the grade is within your comfort range, expect to be pleased with the balance of the entire experience.

One thing I noticed: If you look at the top-end climbs bolted (most of the time) by the same guys who put a lot of work into FAing that climb, whether or not they are the same guys who ended up FAing. We are talking about 5.14-5.15 range and FAs that take months of work.

Do they put in an "airy runouts" near the top? Just for the heck of it? Just so they could take that totally safe adrenaline-inducing exhilirating ride? Heck no. In fact, they sometimes put the bolts closer together than an average newly-bolted 5.12. Because they have to work hard on it. Because every time they fall they have to jug up to the last one. Because it takes time to work out the sequence of moves and it is handy to grab the draw or be able to clip the next one while still in direct to the previous one.

Then, once the sequence is worked out, once they start redpointing, they begin skipping some clips, if they so choose, or if it turns out that the clip is rather awkward.

But people who are working on redpointing 5.11? Oh, the FA chose for them, the FA decided that, since he is totally comfortable on the 5.11, then the "masses" get to work that pumpy runout section near the top in it's entire length. And if they complain about the runout? Well, they are the gumbies who are not solid at the grade, and therefore should go climb a 5.10 somewhere, instead of trying to break into the next grade. Or learn to bolt and bolt their own lines, and put bolts how they want to. (Except, God forbid, they will bolt something at the crag that the resident bolters have already staked out. but that's a separate trolling subject alltogether, isn't it?)


Just for the record, I have no problem with how most of the lines at the Red are bolted. I think on average the bolts at the Red are spaced closer together than in many other sport-climbing areas, with the exception of, maybe Ten Sleep.

But I do find the attitude of "it is bolted for people who are confident at the grade" somewhat strange. If you had a good friend you cared about, or maybe your little sister who was just getting into the grade, would you recommend that he/she get on the line that you just bolted at that grade? If yes, then it is bolted well. If you tell them to try another climb, instead of the one you just bolted, because the bolting is "spicy", well, then you might be a douche.

[whoneedsfeet]

I love how people actually think that bitching online will Change a bolters mind. If you don't like the spicy run out go get on a different climb. It's that simple, have fun and try hard.

[climb2core]

it is a game of decisions no doubt..every single sport route could be totally dumbed down with bolts every 2-3 feet...anyone want that?

as we start spreading out the bolt placements, we primarily are taking our own view of risk/ability/safety into consideration. personally when I bolt the line my primary question to myself is: how will a climber who is totally confident/competent and comfortable at this grade feel about the line. I do not bolt a 12a with an aspiring 11b climber in mind. if you are climbing one of my routes at your limit, dont expect a security blanket every 3 feet just because you are sketched. if the grade is within your comfort range, expect to be pleased with the balance of the entire experience.

It is less an issue of being competent at the grade and more an issue of being competent at rope management and falling, IMO. Put me on 5.13+, run it out and I can fall with the best of them (if I could climb up it)

The question the developer should ask is "Am I willing to take that fall?" If yes, move on. If no, rethink your spacing.

[Willy]

I agree with that. Bolters shouldn't have to worry about someone getting in over their head. If you don't know how to fall and don't have a competent belayer you shouldn't even be climbing

[clif]

yeah! people who make mistakes should die!

[nik]

I agree with that. Bolters shouldn't have to worry about someone getting in over their head. If you don't know how to fall and don't have a competent belayer you shouldn't even be climbing

but isn't the point of sport climbing to push the barriers of one's ability? projecting routes and what not? "if you're not grabbing draws you're not trying hard enough" (etc).

with that said, i don't have a dog in this fight. i appreciate all the efforts of those that bolt routes for me to climb. although when i think about bolting routes myself (if that ever happens in the future) i don't think i'd bolt them with the idea that only ppl who are solid at the grade are going to climb it. is projecting only for those that climb 13 and above?

[tbwilsonky]

is projecting only for those that climb 13 and above?

above. projecting actually starts at 14b.

[climb2core]

is projecting only for those that climb 13 and above?

above. projecting actually starts at 14b.

Don't tell Lee that