Please Explain It To Me.

[climb2core]

All this controversy really is Kenny's fault that he had be all bad ass and avoid the ledge just so he could use 13b yet again...

[allah]

Doooooods I was originally avoiding the jug!!!!!!!!! Then a really old wise strong guy showed methe way of opening my mind and looking away from all the bad holds and to use the big one. The bigone Was alli needed to send and therefore never even noticed the ledge on the fa. That's what really went down 8 (can't believe its been that long already) years ago! And I love seeing everyone still bicker and whine about the grade, I get so much pleasure out of it!

[toad857]

Whatever consensus the grade may be (on any route), only you can decide how big of a challenge it was for you. Climbing is a personal adventure, and only you can judge your accomplishment---is your end-game just getting up and clipping the chains? Or is it to send the route in style, with complete mental control and absolute focus? Nobody on the ground will know if you almost wet your pants at the crux...but you will. Not all sends are equal, whatever the grade.

I agree with the first part. But then it starts to break down into something personal. To me, it reads like you are saying it is important to send in style. If that is the case refer back to the grade system that we use, have used and probably will continue to use. There are no style points. This isn't a dance contest where everyone does the same route and the winner is the one that keeps their toes pointed and smiles the most.

There are no points of any kind. Not for style, and not for the grade either. You just can't quantify climbing.

And when we talk of "style", only the climber can say where the crux was. It's a shifty demon that wears a different mask for each climber. When it's your turn to confront it, only you know how close it came to biting your head off, y'know?

I like to recommend climbing without a guidebook. It's fun, and you learn a lot about yourself when it turns out that you freaked out on a climb way below your "appropriate" limit. Or when you mercilessly crushed one miles above it. That's what I mean when I talk about style.

To me it sounds like you enjoy the feeling of being challenged. Don't the grades make it easier for you to hone in on the appropriate route or challenge???

Not really. The "appropriate" challenge for me is something you can sense from the ground--e.g., the climb "far from god" at shady grove hasn't given me even 1% of the inspiration that I feel when I look at "Taste the rainbow". I know some of you know what I'm talking about. There was a movie about it a few years ago, it was called "King Lines". I like the concept a lot. There are king lines for all of us, and they have nothing to do with the grades.

I matured a lot as a climber while deep water soloing in a place where there are no climbers, let alone grades and guidebooks and tick marks. In a place like that you really start to learn a lot about what makes a challenge "appropriate". For me, it is being able to get to the jugs at the top of a climb, become swarmed by fire ants and still keep the mental composure to not let go and retreat to 'safety'.

Becoming stuck in the grade vortex is what urges people to climb "Wild yet tasty" over "mercy the huff", or to avoid a wonderful, long route like "tuna town" in favor of climbing "chainsaw" over and over again (yuck). Or to be satisfied with "dogleg" instead of doing that wall justice and climbing "demon seed".

[JR]

There are no points of any kind. Not for style, and not for the grade either. You just can't quantify climbing.

http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuid ... ay&id=3871

I like to recommend climbing without a guidebook. It's fun..

I concur.

The "appropriate" challenge for me is something you can sense from the ground--e.g., the climb "far from god" at shady grove hasn't given me even 1% of the inspiration that I feel when I look at "Taste the rainbow".

I see steep choss. I have no idea what you are talking about here. Is Taste the Rainbow a bit taller? Is it the impending rope drag on Taste the Rainbow that turns your crank?

I matured a lot as a climber while deep water soloing in a place where there are no climbers, let alone grades and guidebooks and tick marks. In a place like that you really start to learn a lot about what makes a challenge "appropriate". For me, it is being able to get to the jugs at the top of a climb, become swarmed by fire ants and still keep the mental composure to not let go and retreat to 'safety'.

I hope every climber has an anecdote that doesn't involve grades. Good stuff.

Becoming stuck in the grade vortex is what urges people to climb "Wild yet tasty" over "mercy the huff", or to avoid a wonderful, long route like "tuna town" in favor of climbing "chainsaw" over and over again (yuck). Or to be satisfied with "dogleg" instead of doing that wall justice and climbing "demon seed".

Along with Taste the Rainbow it seems like you are painting yourself as a number chaser. Surprise!! You prefer the harder route four times in a row. I totally agree this time. Harder routes generally are better. Holy Christ!!! I would love to be climbing Thanatopsis right now. I bet that fucker is awesome.

But seriously...Do you really want a 12a climber on Taste the Rainbow, Mercy the Huff, Tuna Town and Demon Seed? I don't. By the same token I wouldn't want people to see me just stick clipping up Thanatopsis fondling holds.