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what ever happened to "style"?

Shit, what ever happened to "Class"?

Everybody seemes so concerned to dumb it down so the least able or the barely qualified can suceed. I have climbed hard twelves, I mosetly stick to 10's and elevens because I look good and I feel good doing it. Its not some desperate-breathless-stab-at-the-hope-of-pulling-it-off-just-this-once-non-climbing-climbing.

develop a sense of style, then go climb.

It is misguided at best to pursue a resolution to this issue based on a poll or vote. I am afraid that if the RRG ethic is going to be based on the popular vote then more closures and restrictions are to follow. To me safety, first, and then Leave No Trace should be the primary considerations. Generally, from a safety standpoint it is best to use your own gear and from an LNT standpoint it is best to remove your gear when you are done for the day. I concede that there are some situations where a fixed draw might improve safety or reduce impact. Thus my personal position is that fixed gear should be placed judiciously and only when necessary to increase safety or reduce impact. One of my biggest fears with fixed gear becoming the norm is that it will be expected. This becomes a problem in the Red when people are unable to know the difference between public lands and private lands with differing rules. On several occassions I have heard our area referred to collectively as "The Park". If fixed draws exist on every bolt in one part of "The Park" why aren't they everywhere? This also becomes a potential safety problem for aspiring climbers from our area who become used to a "gym like" experience with closely spaced bolts and fixed draws and then go to another area with a different ethic such as, "placing your own draws is the norm, bolts are spaced assuming you are solid at that grade, if the climb backs off from that grade no bolts are placed."

right on. i think some complication and confusion is due to 8 year olds with no experience that now climb 13's. ban them.

I would dare to say that the 8 year old are smarter than half the pro-permadraw/convenience sluts on this site.

no you didunt. yeah, so even if it is true, why would you want either of them to know?

Touche Honkey face. I didn't think this one through very well did I?

i'll have you know Josephine Baker taught me how to shit at the crag.

captain static wrote:It is misguided at best to pursue a resolution to this issue based on a poll or vote. I am afraid that if the RRG ethic is going to be based on the popular vote then more closures and restrictions are to follow. To me safety, first, and then Leave No Trace should be the primary considerations. Generally, from a safety standpoint it is best to use your own gear and from an LNT standpoint it is best to remove your gear when you are done for the day. I concede that there are some situations where a fixed draw might improve safety or reduce impact. Thus my personal position is that fixed gear should be placed judiciously and only when necessary to increase safety or reduce impact. One of my biggest fears with fixed gear becoming the norm is that it will be expected. This becomes a problem in the Red when people are unable to know the difference between public lands and private lands with differing rules. On several occassions I have heard our area referred to collectively as "The Park". If fixed draws exist on every bolt in one part of "The Park" why aren't they everywhere? This also becomes a potential safety problem for aspiring climbers from our area who become used to a "gym like" experience with closely spaced bolts and fixed draws and then go to another area with a different ethic such as, "placing your own draws is the norm, bolts are spaced assuming you are solid at that grade, if the climb backs off from that grade no bolts are placed."

It was never the intention of this poll to resolve the issue, rather it was to display the plurality of views. I've repeatedly stated here that this poll in no way shape or form creates a mandate for any group.