Lead belay question

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climb2core
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by climb2core »

Frogger wrote:Even in a decking situation, u still started near the wall, and then ran once the climber started falling.

What are peoples thought on these belay glasses? Seem like another thing to fumble with. Maybe thi has already been discussed elsewhere.

It has. I have them and I believe give a more attentive and safer belay with. Couple of caveats to that though... I have them on the end of my nose and don't use them until they are normally clipped through second bolt. Also, depth perception is more of a challenge, ie... how far they are falling and I sometimes switch to looking up if I am concerned about lead fall above a ledge, swinging into overhang, etc. That way I can judge better whether to take up or give out more slack for a safe fall. Also, if they fall down low it is hard to keep them in your field of view and would be easy for you to end with your head up their butt. Like the gri-gri, it can be a useful piece of technology but has to be used correctly.
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pigsteak
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by pigsteak »

climb..it was a piggism, but also knowing that 90% of those on here never get on stuff that steep. those there are expert climbs.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
dustonian
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by dustonian »

pigsteak wrote:I outweigh my wife by 50 pounds..she can stand anywhere she wants and it is a soft catch.
people are missing the real point here in how to give a soft catch. it is not so much about where you stand as it is about timing your reaction to the fall. on those steep falls, if they have started a straight down fall, and then the belayer sits back hard, it creates a slingshot effect that swings the climber at increasing speed into the wall. learning to get over the tendency to sit back, stand your ground, or whatever is tough but can be learned. the big thing is that right at the moment the climber is about to hit the end of the rope, this is not the time to be a brick wall. learn to cushion the fall for them.
Yep, I've got about 50 lbs on Lena too, and I have to be pretty darn catlike to give her a perfectly soft catch. I even do little things like take a leak before belaying her, take off my chalkbag, jacket, any unnecessary gear on my harness... 5lbs can be a big difference, and I think 165-170 is right at the threshhold for climbers at 120lbs or under... & it helps to belay her with a figure 8 & use especially dynamic ropes, as some are way softer than others. By the same token, if I fall on her, it is typically pretty huge & there is NO getting back on route by boinking--we leave a backpack with 20-25lbs. nearby so she can put it on and enable me to boink up.

If a bigger belayer doesn't time their hop perfectly (ie. they are coming down from their jump when they should be going up), the results can be pretty grim for a lighter climber. This was what caused those injuries on Spank and the Madness Cave--mistimed jumping and/or sitting back on the rope like a bag of cement. These were belayers who were instructed to "jump" during the fall and screwed it up--it really is a split-second difference between a nice soft catch and the hardest, most jarring slam into the rock possible when the climber is significantly lighter than the belayer. In fact, I think it's better NOT to instruct a relatively green belayer to jump during a fall ("during the load" would be the more accurate way to put), because if they screw it up and jump too early (before feeling the tug of the rope), a real hazard has been created. On the other hand, if they just stand there and don't jump, the catch will be hard but not dangerous. Jumping too early is a major unrecognized hazard IMO and it is quite easy for a heavier belayer to screw this up, and if they are standing anywhere but underneath the first bolt the physics are pretty hopeless.

And yes, we're talking about steep sport climbing here before somebody feels the need to qualify "but not on vertical routes or ledgy trad, right? Right?!" Where you stand is important when the belayer significantly outweighs the climber, but good reactions, judgment and adaptation to changing situations are more important. Unfortunately there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to this, just good instincts and experience.
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climb2core
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by climb2core »

Hmmm... how to ask this. Do you guys ever tie down your partner?
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Saxman
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by Saxman »

Wow, I was very diplomatic there. That prison anger management class really paid off.
The theory of evolution is just as stupid as the theories of gravity and electromagnetism.
dustonian
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by dustonian »

Yeah, what a catch! No wonder you broke up with Kevin.
Shamis
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by Shamis »

Good belaying is totally situational.

You have to be able to adjust your style based on the weight of the climber/belayer, the angle of the climbing, the chance of hitting a ledge/the ground, the general terrain of the area, and the position of the bolts.
dustonian
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by dustonian »

Shamis wrote:Good belaying is totally situational.

You have to be able to adjust your style based on the weight of the climber/belayer, the angle of the climbing, the chance of hitting a ledge/the ground, the general terrain of the area, and the position of the bolts.
Yep... right on.
rhunt
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by rhunt »

climb2core wrote:Hmmm... how to ask this. Do you guys ever tie down your partner?
Never in a common sport climbing situation. Belay anchors are usually only need to when you need to keep the belayer from falling off his/her belay stance....and of course on multi pitch climbs
"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist
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climb2core
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Re: Lead belay question

Post by climb2core »

Really, because I have multiple smaller partners and we have tied them off to a tree or rock on multiple occasions. Measuring out enough slack to give them room to move but prevent them from getting pulled to the rock or first bolt. It has worked very well in situations wherevi know I might be taking big whippers.
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