Climbers Spray-painting trees at Oil Crack, Arena, etc.
Jeff, check it out, there are signs near the base of left flank and military...not just at the start of the trail. The RRGCC was pretty much forced to put them there because people wouldn't stop building fires and camping at the base of these cliffs. I believe these signs are near the base of other popular climbing areas in the national forest.
"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist
Those signs address the issues of fire building/camping NOT that This is Military Wall Or Left Flank. Those signs were approved by the USFS prior to being put up. What took place at big sinking is pure vandalism. The individual took it upon themself to make obvious landmark because they obiviously can't read a topo or by word of mouth.
Just genuinely disengenuous.
I am not in favor of vandalising trees, nor necessarily putting signs at all the trailheads. However, it wouldn't hurt things to put a sign indicating a turnoff road or even a cairn perhaps. People will find the crags eventually, it is just a matter of whether or not to eliminate people driving up and down the wrong roads and making the area more user friendly.
There are two different signs at the trailheads at Military and Left Flank, one identifies the trail as the Military Wall trail and the other sign informs of no camping or firebuilding.
There are two different signs at the trailheads at Military and Left Flank, one identifies the trail as the Military Wall trail and the other sign informs of no camping or firebuilding.
"But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads?" – Lord Byron
ok, I hate to be the numbskull here, but what part of this argument am I missing (serious question)?
if we are so concerned wiht the private land aspect of this argument, then did anyone ask permission for the "permanent" trails that have already developed to these crags?
if I remember correctly (only been there once), isn't there a tree (or more) that has been cut down at solar collector? did anyone ask for that permission? also, the bolts that have been placed..anyone ask for permission there? or was it done, and then "asked about" later?
spray paint sucks..but so do these other signs of invasion, if they were not approached correctly....I am guessing that once again we have drawn an arbitrary line of what is acceptable climber behavior...trails good, bolts good, signs bad....
if we are so concerned wiht the private land aspect of this argument, then did anyone ask permission for the "permanent" trails that have already developed to these crags?
if I remember correctly (only been there once), isn't there a tree (or more) that has been cut down at solar collector? did anyone ask for that permission? also, the bolts that have been placed..anyone ask for permission there? or was it done, and then "asked about" later?
spray paint sucks..but so do these other signs of invasion, if they were not approached correctly....I am guessing that once again we have drawn an arbitrary line of what is acceptable climber behavior...trails good, bolts good, signs bad....
Last edited by pigsteak on Mon Jul 21, 2003 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
I can see your arguement Pigsteak, but downed trees and trails also will develop naturally. If you are walking through the woods and see a fallen tree or distinct trail, you don't give it another thought. Minus the bolts, I think the arbitrary line that gets drawn tries more to divide the natural and unnatural.
Mj
Mj
...quitting drinking is kinda like washing your hands after you take a crap...why start now?
Ok rhunt,
I thought you were talking about a sign that was at the base of a cliff that had the word "Military" or "Left Flank" on it.
The signs about fire building and camping (in my mind) are neccesary. I wish they weren't, but it is just a case in point of how some people who come to climb/hike at the Red are clueless as to how to act in the woods and will build fires, camp in the wrong places, leave trash, break down trees, etc... Hell most of these signs are torn down by morons too.
I thought you were talking about a sign that was at the base of a cliff that had the word "Military" or "Left Flank" on it.
The signs about fire building and camping (in my mind) are neccesary. I wish they weren't, but it is just a case in point of how some people who come to climb/hike at the Red are clueless as to how to act in the woods and will build fires, camp in the wrong places, leave trash, break down trees, etc... Hell most of these signs are torn down by morons too.
Ya'll just like to argue...
Military Wall and Left Flank signs were put up by the Forest Service because they are official forest service trails now thanks to the RRGCC, which also means the Forest Service likes those trails and is less likely to close down climbing to them due to the trails being "approved". Also, they are likely meant more for hikers than climbers, so that hikers won't get confused and head up to military wall or left flank when they think they are on the Rough Trail.
They were definitely not put there because climbers couldn't find military wall or left flank. Where do you get yer facts? What are you? Dumb? Seriously?
Big Sinkin is private land. That does not mean we shouldn't treat it well. In fact, it probably means we should strive for a higher standard. Hopefully, nobody would spray paint a tree to mark the way to Phantasia... The painted tree to Oil Crack is no better. I defer to my prior comments. Get a clue, ask around, learn by adventure. YOU DO NOT OWN the rock nor the trees in the Southern Region... Terry does! Duh!
Pigsteak is right too... it's a slippery slope we tread when we're outraged by one thing, but not by another act of vandalism... like Hooky Pals.
Military Wall and Left Flank signs were put up by the Forest Service because they are official forest service trails now thanks to the RRGCC, which also means the Forest Service likes those trails and is less likely to close down climbing to them due to the trails being "approved". Also, they are likely meant more for hikers than climbers, so that hikers won't get confused and head up to military wall or left flank when they think they are on the Rough Trail.
They were definitely not put there because climbers couldn't find military wall or left flank. Where do you get yer facts? What are you? Dumb? Seriously?
Big Sinkin is private land. That does not mean we shouldn't treat it well. In fact, it probably means we should strive for a higher standard. Hopefully, nobody would spray paint a tree to mark the way to Phantasia... The painted tree to Oil Crack is no better. I defer to my prior comments. Get a clue, ask around, learn by adventure. YOU DO NOT OWN the rock nor the trees in the Southern Region... Terry does! Duh!
Pigsteak is right too... it's a slippery slope we tread when we're outraged by one thing, but not by another act of vandalism... like Hooky Pals.
Last edited by JB on Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
[size=75]i may be weak, but i have bad technique[/size]
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LittleMonkeyMojo
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Having just been to the area this past weekend for the first time (Saturday July 19th), I can say that even with the directions 'The Arena' and 'Oil Crack' aren't all that "easy" to find. I didn't see the spraypaint so it was probably done after we got there or left. For Oil Crack, getting to the crag, there's the description of "series of 3 drives"... Not obvious which "3 drives" are being referred to. The best description of any of the approachs was "only road that meets up with the main gravel road at a 90 degree angle". Also, the "sharp right turn to the unmarked gravel road" is actually a "marked gravel road', and its name is something like 'Bald Rock Fork Road' I think the signage just says 'Bald Rock Fork' or 'Bald Rock Rd'.
If climbers used the word "Beta" the way computer programmers did, then we'd be in for a world of hurt.