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Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:09 pm
by bcombs
Clevis Hitch wrote:I think that you gotta only praise their successes. You also gotta lament their failures. Don't give your kid the same kudos for failure as you do success. It gives them a false sense that will come crashing with the introduction to the real world. Thats it. Thats all I want to say about it.
Your approach is interesting to me. I have always taken a different tact. My thought is to keep things more balanced. You want to give kudos when they are due, but not over the top. As Meadows stated, they start to put the value in the success itself because that is the only place where they are being rewarded. I try to be encouraging, not over dramatic (i.e. Johnny, you learned to tie your shoes!!!!! Just in time for your 14th birthday party!!!).
Also, I don't think lament is the word for me here. To me, lament means you are sad or regretful about something. I'm not sure it is helpful to be that emotionally invested in the act of failure. Instead I try to point out where the process broke down, prop him back up and encourage him to try again.
One thing I try to be mindful of though, is that I don't want to further the participation trophy mentality. There is value in winning, there is value in success, but it is not the only thing that is valuable in life. Hard work pays off, sometimes easy work pays off too, but you can't let yourself get too high or too low as a result of it.
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:37 am
by Clevis Hitch
There is value in success...alot of value.
The funny thing is that there is probablymore value in failure! Anybody can deal with success. The development of character happens with our response to adversity.
These T-ball leagues that hand out same sized trophys to kids that win and kids that lose. The kids miss something important.
You are right that everything being trophy oriented is also (I wanna say bad, but thats not the proper value statement) Less than optimal.
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:22 am
by calcify
Clevis Hitch wrote:There is value in success...alot of value.
The funny thing is that there is probablymore value in failure! Anybody can deal with success. The development of character happens with our response to adversity.
These T-ball leagues that hand out same sized trophys to kids that win and kids that lose. The kids miss something important.
You are right that everything being trophy oriented is also (I wanna say bad, but thats not the proper value statement) Less than optimal.
Absolutely. Life is zero sum but the real world kids grow into isn't...(?)
El Cap had a lot more value after epic fails on NA and other routes. Same with the hard (for me) sport I've climbed.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out over time. I haven't heard much from that girl that was climbing v10 at the age of 10...whatwuzhername anyhoo?
Yet, I talked to Chris Lindner 2 years ago in rifle and hung out with his folks after he left. I was at the Gallery several times when he was sending 12ds/13as at 12 and 13 circa '91 I'm guessing. We chuckled about how old his folks (and me) were. Chris's dad was a complete badazz tho, (still is actually)...how many people have climbed Paisano without welder's gloves to boot. Dad was still climbing in lycra, too. Says it doesn't hang up like jeans...rad.
So maybe it's like a Herbert or LeMenestral or Lindner thing. To have the tenacity to keep up over the years you might need a bad dad (or mom) climb genes. Time will tell.