RRC Archives

anticlmber wrote:hey mack (and all else) remember one thing. how hard or what you climb does not make you a non-gumby. learning how to use knowledge, sound judgement, and experience to evaluate risk and reduce it are what leads you on the path to nonG status.

throwing a name or number only solidifies it.

Amen

pigsteak wrote:how about a stainless gluein below the current first bolt? of course, the equipper would have to OK that.

Putting another bolt below the current first one (something that would be reach-able from a good stance on the ledge) would sure make it easier to start this route without a stick-clip. The first bolt is really high up right now, so not even every stick clip can reach it. TROCS is a popular route in a popular location, and making it safer sounds appealing.

I admit that I would not be climbing it without the first bolt stick-clipped anytime soon. But the same can be said about a lot of other routes, and anyway, the route has been up for quite some time bolted as is, and people have managed to climb it without accidents. Why add bolt now?

Shamis wrote:... the next edition of the guidebook should probably start warning people that stick clips are no longer optional for sport climbing at the red...

+ 1

lena_chita wrote: Putting another bolt below the current first one (something that would be reach-able from a good stance on the ledge) would sure make it easier to start this route without a stick-clip. The first bolt is really high up right now, so not even every stick clip can reach it. TROCS is a popular route in a popular location, and making it safer sounds appealing.

Well, there is usally a reason first bolts are so high, if a low bolt is placed, the slack taken out while clipping the second could easily risk a ground fall. I'm sure there are careful placements that can help this, but high first bolts aren't usually place so high just cause the bolter feels like it.

Wes wrote:

Shamis wrote:I don't know how high the first bolt is on this, but the next edition of the guidebook should probably start warning people that stick clips are no longer optional for sport climbing at the red. I've been on a dozen routes here that have very cruxy moves down low and a first bolt that is 15-20 feet high.

Do all new route developers assume everybody has a stick clip? I know pigsteak does.

WTH? Stick clips are always optional. I usually put the first bolt kinda high on my routes, but also try to make sure there is a good hold to clip it from if you chose not to stick clip. It is not the developers responsibility to make routes idiot proof. It you can't do the math on weather you can safely make it to the first bolt or not, then you deserve your broken ankle, etc. Or just use a stick clip. But, do not blame others for your incompetence.

5-10 years ago most sport routes in the country would not put the first bolt more than about 12 feet up unless the climbing before the first bolt was significantly easier than the grade of the route. This is no longer the case, particularly at the red where there are LOTS of routes with bolts 20 feet up and hard climbing at or near to the grade of the route on the way to that bolt. This requires a stick clip for any sane individual. But people who aren't used to that will assume that the climbing must be easy, why else would they put the first bolt so high?

i don't get it.
aren't situational awareness and personal responsibility two aspects of climbing that make it so appealing?

it's been said a million times on this board alone, in this thread even, but i think it bears repeating:
rock climbing should not be lowered to the lowest common denominator.

Do you stick clip gear routes?
c'mon people.

ahab wrote:Do you stick clip gear routes?
c'mon people.

On more than one occasion.

lol, ok that proves my point. you were uncomfortable climbing to your first placement, so rather than procede with what you deemed unwise, you did what you thought necessary to keep your ass intact.

it's even easier w/ spurt climbing b/c you can see the damn bolts!

ahab wrote:lol, ok that proves my point. you were uncomfortable climbing to your first placement, so rather than procede with what you deemed unwise, you did what you thought necessary to keep your ass intact.

it's even easier w/ spurt climbing b/c you can see the damn bolts!

Unless of course you assume that the first bolt was placed so that it could be clipped safely by somebody who is competent at the grade.

I put high first bolts, but only because I am cheap. but Shamis you can not find a single one of my routes with a first bolt at 20 feet....not one.

why? cause my stick clip is only 12 feet long, and with my reach I can go to 18...tops. sooo, the first bolt is 15 or under.

but come on people.....folks have been using old tree branches for 20 years to clip a high first bolt..this isn't just a new phenomenon.