Response to Injuries in Muir Valley

Post by **pigsteak** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:24 pm

rhunt wrote:Petzl didn't develp a device with the idea of letting go of the brake end of the rope was the way to arrest a fall. From Petzl website - "arresting a fall is done by holding the free end of the rope" free end meaning brake end

We have conventions in the sport for a reason. If someone needs let go of the rope in order for the grigri to work then they were using the deivce incorrectly.

it doesn't appear artsay was using the grigri incorrectly. and letting go was her saviour (or ray's I guess)

Post by **Gaar** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:25 pm

I've seen it too many times. If hand tension is applyed to the Climbers end of the GriGri, while trying to catch a fall, enough tension is lost to keep the cam on the device from engaging, Even with a hand on the Break side.

You dont have to be touching the device for this to occure.

Try in a CONTROLLED setting if you want to see what I'm talking about.
While under tension apply a "panic" squeeze to the climbers end, and a hand on the break end. Unweight the rope, and try to reweight the rope. There is not enough force to engage the cam. LET GO WITH YOUR LEFT HAND and it will lock

Post by **rhunt** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:28 pm

Artsay example is not what we are talking about she did the right thing considering the glove problem. I too have found gloves can sometime get in the way.

Post by **caribe** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:29 pm

Pigs let's just leave it to Petzl. You and others are mis-educating the public. I would trust you or Artsay on belay no problem. But, let me say, just leave the proper tech to Petzl. "Let go of the brake" is not Petzl SOP.

Right on Gaar and rhunt!

pigsteak wrote:
rhunt wrote:Petzl didn't develp a device with the idea of letting go of the brake end of the rope was the way to arrest a fall. From Petzl website - "arresting a fall is done by holding the free end of the rope" free end meaning brake end

We have conventions in the sport for a reason. If someone needs let go of the rope in order for the grigri to work then they were using the deivce incorrectly.
it doesn't appear artsay was using the grigri incorrectly. and letting go was her saviour (or ray's I guess)

Post by **Wes** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:29 pm

I use a gri-gri for bolting and photos all the time - and if you grab the front side and take even a little bit of weight off, the gri-gri will unlock, even if you hold the brake side. I can just about promise that if you hold the cam down or the front side of the rope, even with your brake hand on, you won't be able to stop a good fall. Thus, the "just let go" beta. Then, at least there is a really good chance it will lock up.

Post by **caribe** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:31 pm

Just hang on to the brake side of the rope. Use the brake--nothing else and you are good. This is not rocket science. If you program 'brake hand' you can use any belay device. Your first reaction is simply to brake--one hard hip-ward jam with the hand while you jump lightly or whatever you need to do to keep the climber the safest with any device. Why is this such a difficult concept? Why can't we see in inherent dangers in letting go? Letting go is just plain sloppy. If you don't drop someone with a grigri you will with some other device.

Wes wrote:I use a gri-gri for bolting and photos all the time - and if you grab the front side and take even a little bit of weight off, the gri-gri will unlock, even if you hold the brake side. I can just about promise that if you hold the cam down or the front side of the rope, even with your brake hand on, you won't be able to stop a good fall. Thus, the "just let go" beta. Then, at least there is a really good chance it will lock up.

Post by **charlie** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:35 pm

caribe wrote:Pigs let's just leave it to Petzl. You and others are mis-educating the public. ...........

Man I hate these threads.

Post by **Wes** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:35 pm

It sounds great on paper, doesn't it? But, in real life, sometimes it is just easier to "just let go", rather then try to remember which hand to let go with. Also, once we are the point of needing to let go with the left hand, something has already gone wrong, so maybe it isn't so bad.

Post by **Andrew** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:42 pm

The same thing that happened to Artsay, happened with my sister and me. Meadows was there. It is the exact same scenario with the gri gri.

Post by **caribe** » Mon May 18, 2009 7:46 pm

Wes letting go sounds great on paper; you can tell I feel pretty strongly about this, but I don't want to set myself up as foolproof. I think if you care and are vigilant things will work as they are supposed to. Once we think that this device will do the belaying for us, at some point it will fail.

I was belayed by a guy one time who told me that his grigri was through one of his equipment loops of his harness. Would you rather he hand onto the brake or not?

I fall, loop blows, grigri locks and flies through his non-brake hand, grigri hits first draw and locks open, etc. If he has a brake I have a prayer.

I did not fall.