RRC Archives

Well i guess my direct conversations with the FS don't mean jack shit. That's the information that they gave me.

Has the RRGCC or anyone received a list of areas to be closed and an additional list of areas that does not come in conflict with arch reports, endangered species, and meets the current and/or proposed forest plan?

I was recently requested to fill out the forms to obtain next year guide permits. The USFS requested that we list the areas we would like to guide. I ask for a list as I described above. One was not available. So I suggested that we list "see attachment" and attach Johnny's guidebook.

Gretchen If you or anyone else has this information, please help me out; they didn't seem to think my approach was feasible.

I'm sorry I was unable to attend this meeting. I just read this thread in detail, and I must say, I'm taken aback. Thank you to everyone who attended and who has provided insight here.

Capt. Static and others, I would be very interested to read your comments as you prepare them. Please contact me via pm or email.

Also, the lazy bastards on the CAC really need to do something. What is the RRGCC's position on the route approval delays and potential closures??

Lynne, you shouldn't call yourself a lazy bastard@
You need to talk to El Presidente Hamsco and discuss it at the next CAC meeting in August!

TrueNorth, when I filled out my paperwork for the special use permit, I too was asked to provide a "wish list" of the crags that we wanted to guide out. Of course we were only approved for four: Left Flank, Military, Fortress & Phantasia. Those are they ONLY crags that are allowable for special use permits to date. The FS just wants an idea as to where we would also like to go for future expansion of guideable areas. No the FS at this time has not disclosed to the RRGCC the areas that they intend to "TEMPORARILY CLOSE" until the LACs are done. They have been working on a biological/archeology report for the past almost three years and have yet to dislose their findings. When the RRGCC knows, the community will know. I can't reiterate enough as to how slow the government mechanism moves at. Patience is key as well as good behavior and support.

My point was the information regarding closures was NOT available. Therefore anyone proclaiming certain areas free from closure is projecting personal hypotheses and should condition the statement as such. You may be correct, just state it as such.

I too agree with the walk softly approach, does carrying a big stick have any merit as it did in Teddy Roosevelt's foreign policy?

What does "TEMPORARILY CLOSED" mean? Closed until the dead rises and moves to another location? Closed until research is done that cannot be funded?

33 replies have hit this thread with 573 views. The question still being ask, “what position will the RRGCC take when these closures take place?”

I’m pretty heavily invested in this community, my apologies if my patients regarding these issues seem a little more aggressive than you like

The RRGCC is working very cooperatively with the FS. If a closure comes down the pike, then we respect it. We will try everything in our power to persuade the FS to limit the amount of closure as possible and provide them with assistance with their research as needed. It is very important to be cooperative and hope for the best. There are things that we can control and things that we can't. Getting into an uproar won't help matters only agitate them. The relationship between the climbing community & the FS of today has come along way and we intend for it to travel that path; A productive, working relationship built on trust and partnership, not on personal gain.

You represent a group of people. Their "personal gain" should be your primary interest.

Women’s right to vote. Desegregation: The peace movement in the 60’s. All brought “personal gain” to the coalitions who stood for their cause. Is that not what political activism is suppose to be about?


Perhaps you think the Creator sent you here to dispose of us as you see fit.
If I thought you were sent by the creator, I might be induced to think you had a right to dispose of me.
Do not misunderstand me
But understand me fully with my reference to the land
I never said the land was mine to do with as I choose
The one who has the right to dispose of it is the one who created it.
I claim the right to live on my land
And accord you the privilege to return to yours.

Bother we have listened to your talk
Coming from our father the Great White Chief at Washington
And my people have called upon me to reply to you.

And in the winds which pass through these aged pines
We hear the moaning of the departed ghost
And if the voice of our people could have been heard
That act would have never been done
But alas through they stood around they could neither be seen or heard
Their tears fell like drops of rain

I can hear my voice in the depths of the forest
But no answering voice comes back to me
All is silent around me
My words must therefore be few
I can say no more

He is silent for he has nothing to answer when the sun goes down

Chief Joseph of the Nev Perce nation

This is my last post on this matter. Thanks for your time

At the Aug. 23 meeting we can discuss this and many other issues. Gretchen is right on about the snails pace at which the FS moves. Some closures have allready happened (ie: Cindy Lou & Seuss SS @ Dip), and we should be ready for more. Till the new FS plan is offical everything seems to be on hold.
The agenda for the next CAC meeting is not set and any suggestions can be sent to me. We have come along way in the last 10 yrs. and working with the FS can be frustrating but it keeps us going in the right direction.

Even though I closed out my comments on this thread, I had an experienced today I felt worth noting. It could have been dropped in several threads, this one seemed the most appropriate.

We guided a family of four today, a father and his three children Paul age 7, Maria age 11 and Christen age 13. None had been climbing before. It rained this morning, so we selected one of the well-used walls we knew to be overhung and dry. I watched as Paul (the quite one and only 3 feet tall) was scared to death, but refused to quit climbing up. Christen discovered that she was a natural, she steemed, jammed, laid back, fell and went back for more. John spotted her at the base (it was wet), She went back the second time and refused the help, she wanted to climb it complete on her own. Maria wouldn’t quit either and held her own the whole afternoon. When the rain came the kids sang a “sunshine song” and it worked.

At the end of the day I followed the group out and hung back to appreciate the land and several thought ran through my mind. Here are some of them:

This family thanked us for the experience. John and I should thank them for allowing us to do what we love for a living. John and I are damn lucky.

The land was beautiful after the rain. Climbers have used this area for years. If I had ask this family if they had noticed the anchors, soil compaction or chalk they would have said no. If I had asked if the trail was unsightly and disgusting, they would have said no. We left no trash, nor did we find any, and we looked. Thank you climbers, for keeping this well known trad area clean.

There were no signs at the trailhead and we found it OK.

Through this family, I found my reason to fight to keep climbing open. To keep it open in the Gorge itself. Not for me a business owner or for sport climbers or for trad climbers, but for Maria, Christen and Paul.

I know there are benefits of saving potential arch sites; I also know the benefits this family received today.

If there are those who would like to use the current arch report to manipulate the FS with no regard to these kids. You selfish bastards, get off your friggen political egotistical high horses and become a public servant instead of a public official.

That was about the only negative thought I had today. I thought long and hard about the last comment, for I know this site is reviewed, printed and discussed in meetings.

Oh what the hell.

Thanks for that post.