RRC Archives

anticlimber brings up a good point. knee pads are not the norm at the red and therefore, grades are based on ascents without them. to argue that a route should be downrated if someone does it with knee pads is foolish. However, an ascent with knee pads is not as physically demanding as one without. Knee pads are, after all, just another way to use extra equipment to make staying on the rock easier. Then, I could argue that pulling on draws or dry tooling up routes is legit as well. So, if I climb dirty smelly while pulling on every single draw, am I still a 13b climber?

rustyvasectomy wrote:anticlimber brings up a good point. knee pads are not the norm at the red and therefore, grades are based on ascents without them. to argue that a route should be downrated if someone does it with knee pads is foolish. However, an ascent with knee pads is not as physically demanding as one without. Knee pads are, after all, just another way to use extra equipment to make staying on the rock easier. Then, I could argue that pulling on draws or dry tooling up routes is legit as well. So, if I climb dirty smelly while pulling on every single draw, am I still a 13b climber?

Interesting. What about fixed draws? Or adding a longer draw? Do you strip your draws before every attempt so you can get the pure redpoint and thus full points, or do you dumb down the sport by climbing on pre placed draws?

for me:

knee pad ascent = wide awake

no knee pad = Zzzzzzzzz

rhunt wrote:

Saxman wrote:These threads just won't die. Sticky rubber and then cams were considered cheating. Just wait until someone invents liquid rubber to coat your hands for hand jams.

.

You're kidding right?


http://www.mtntools.com/cat/rclimb/chal ... ammies.htm

I have seen jammies, I am talking about a liquid rubber to coat the whole hand and then peel off afterward.

yeah but next thing you know you get covered in the rubber, tangled in the rope, and then...............................


hmmmm.....you know, on second thought. game on!

its worth repeating: grades are estimates and approximations at best. climb however you want. blah blah blah.

unless you're getting sponsorships, nobody except you cares how you get up the wall.

http://www.fiveten.com/catalog/product_ ... da9b57cd42..

DHB wrote: unless you're getting sponsorships, nobody except you cares how you get up the wall.

don't be so sure about that.

If you really look at the reality of things, there has been and always will be new tricks to make things easier and thus advance the difficulty of climbing. Sticky rubber knee pads are no different than sticky rubber shoes, crash pads and caming devices. The are all tricks to make what was once impossible now possible. You can even argue that bolts are cheating. Hell, look at Sharma's new route, Jumbo Love - didn't he need an unconventionally long rope to do that route? There will always be new trick that will come along that we will all say is cheating and the new kids will just tell us to go away and eventually it will be the norm.

Should routes be down rated if rubber knee pads make it easier...yes Why would you want to make it harder for yourself, would you not wear climbing shoe while you are trying to send your hardest project? Would you leave the cams at home on a trip to Indain Creek? Would you leave your crash pad at home on a trip to Hueco?

Wes wrote:

rustyvasectomy wrote:anticlimber brings up a good point. knee pads are not the norm at the red and therefore, grades are based on ascents without them. to argue that a route should be downrated if someone does it with knee pads is foolish. However, an ascent with knee pads is not as physically demanding as one without. Knee pads are, after all, just another way to use extra equipment to make staying on the rock easier. Then, I could argue that pulling on draws or dry tooling up routes is legit as well. So, if I climb dirty smelly while pulling on every single draw, am I still a 13b climber?

Interesting. What about fixed draws? Or adding a longer draw? Do you strip your draws before every attempt so you can get the pure redpoint and thus full points, or do you dumb down the sport by climbing on pre placed draws?

For sport climbing, i say the most appropriate way to climb something is to immitate the first ascentionist. Some things such as clothing need not be considerd. Since for any difficult climb, most likley the FA worked it and left draws, this is ok. However, there are other factors that if changed should be considered into the grade of the route. For example, a new much easier sequence or anchors extended to aviod a top crux. I would say using knee pads falls into such a category.