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paul,

I of course can't speak for all the tenets of the christian faith, but I agree with your assumptions. Belief in God provides eternal life. Some like to say God gives them guidance in how to live their everyday life, that he gives them special insight and protections, that he miraculously heals, etc. I am not one of those. I believe that all in the human race are equally loved by God, and that is the power and mystery of accepting or rejecting the Christian story. Free will allows humans to walk away from faith, and I tend to think God wanted it no other way.

Then again, I ask myself about those people just a hundred years ago who couldn't read or write..did they have an equal chance at this acceptance? Does the 8 year old in that story who has his genitals twisted to excise demons (and dies hours later)...did he have an equal chance to accept/reject the Christian faith. I have no answers, and am not afraid to admit that.

i think, though i'm not sure, the argument for those who have not specifically heard the word of god through the bible is that god is evident and obvious all around us and that to be blind to him is to deny him.. but i'm not positive about that sort of reasoning. if it is right, though, it would be an excellent opportunity for the environmental movement.

so since we've reached page twenty in a thread originally about creationism in science class, how about the (catholic) church's position on evolution.. straight from the pope's mouth.

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/message.htm

The sciences of observation describes and measures the multiple manifestations of life with increasing precision and correlate them with the timeline. The moment of transition to the spiritual cannot be the object of this kind of observation, which nevertheless can discover at the experimental level a series of very valuable signs indicating what is specific to the human being. But the experience of metaphysical knowledge, of self-awareness and self-reflection, of moral consciousness, freedom, or again, of aesthetic and religious experience, falls within the competence of philosophical analysis and reflection, while theology brings out its ultimate meaning according to the Creator's plans.

It sounds like he is suggesting that the human mind did come about via biological evolution and should be studied by science but the analysis of when humans transition to a spiritual being should be left to philosophy and theology. He implies earlier that "the spiritual soul is immediately created by God". I'm not sure if he is suggesting God gave earlier hominids a spiritual soul at some point or if he's refering to the issue of when a fertilized egg becomes a spiritual soul. In any case it doesn't sound like he is denying that humans are the product of evolution, just that God gave them a soul. Is this the current position of the Catholic church?

Speaking of the environmental movement. Why is it that christians are obviously the majority in this country but as a group they suck at being stewards of the planet? Is it the whole God gave man dominion over the animals and earth added to the belief in a second coming which negates any need to take care of the place if god is going to sweep in and clean up the mess? Hmm, greed. Now, why would god create humans with greed? Evoliutionarily, some greed is good. It helps keep one alive. What is the point in man created in god's image needing greed? Wouldn't we be better off with an undying urge to give instead of take and keep?

Objection your honor.

His accusations are totally unfounded and inflamatory. He has no proof or statistics to back up his claims.

Shame on you......

Ultra wrote:why do I have to have an openmind......I'm Right!!!

Although you say this with a smile, it effectively illuminates the ultimate prejudice of the liberal position.

ZSpider

Zspider wrote:

Ultra wrote:why do I have to have an openmind......I'm Right!!!

Although you say this with a smile, it effectively illuminates the ultimate prejudice of the liberal position.

only

said

you want yet another diferent view of Christianity check out Bishop John Shelby Spong just google him and you find loads of stuff on him. Wow talk about a liberal Christian.