PDs at Lode

[Artsay]

And if you've never bought draws or biners to replace worn gear then you have no dog in this fight.

Actually, I believe a lot of us already gave you a ton of money for the steel biners you put up around the gorge? http://www.redriverclimbing.com/viewtop ... 11&t=10853
I think some of these got pulled last week, are these at Miguel's too?

Personally I've donated thousands of dollars to climbing and will continue to do so, including to your fundraiser Dave. And since that essentially kicked off the whole fixed steel gear effort at the gorge, how many injuries have occurred on those routes? I know of a sad situation where a young couple died because of old webbing and would like to believe that could've been prevented if steel fixed anchors were on that route. I also know of someone's rope that got sliced from wore down aluminum gear that luckily didn't result in another trajedy.

There are obviously two camps with an unclear line in the sand on when fixed gear should be used. Good discussion but I vote for data collecting to judge assumptions from.

[dustonian]

We could have used your input.

Only a flaming sheepfucker would go to a meeting of choadnibblers blathering about fixed draws instead of attending the Woolly Worm Festival, which was my scheduling conflict. Except Adam, of course, he's a man.

[dustonian]

Does Burlier's Bane really need pd's?

Actually, those were abandoned aluminum draws, not "pd's" (you know, the same kind that will be all over the wall again soon). If they were sharp or hanger-gouged, then yeah of course don't clip them and take them down. But we really don't need THE CREW making these decisions for us on a crag-wide basis, even as super bitchin' rad as you guys are and everything.

[climb2core]

The Fixed Gear solution:

Dario, the Webers, and a few members from RRGCC sit down and decide what the common fixed gear policy is regarding project draws and and PD's. These people either have the right to make the decision or represent our decision. This would provide a common policy for Muir, the Southern region, and PMRP. Make the policy simple as possible and universal.

NFS is simple, no gear.

Or, we can bicker endlessly amongst ourselves and not accomplish anything because none of us really have the authority to do anything. There is a reason why all societies have some sort of leadership... it sometimes is the only way to get shit done.

[dssclimb]

The obvious compromise is to put the good steel gear back up on the steep difficult to clean routes(resurrection left) and leave the worn old gear off.

[dustonian]

Sounds about right Dave. We should have just stripped the aluminum junk when we removed the old bolts, but honestly none of it was sharp or gouged out (yet)... This is all Roger's fault

[krampus]

I think 61% speaks for itself, and my fart is more of a leave em up leaning fart. Don't care one way or the other but taking em down was kind of a dick thing to do

[Andrew]

I think we should come up with a list of routes in the southern region that are acceptable for PD's. I was at Drive-By, which almost has more PD's than the lode, and some were super sketchy.

[Artsay]

The obvious compromise is to put the good steel gear back up on the steep difficult to clean routes(resurrection left) and leave the worn old gear off.

I would agree with this.

[Artsay]

Andrew - I agree with you too. I also suggest measures are taken to document the routes with steel fixed gear so that wear and tear can be monitored and maintained (maybe the online guidebook could be used for this?).