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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:32 pm
by rhunt
pigsteak wrote:hey paul, if there are no souls and it's all dust to dust, why even bother with these organizations you mention? what's the point of helping a neighbor with a hand up?
anyone?
See piggie that is what I don't get about your thinking. Why is that if there is no God then there is no reason to be good people? You're thinking suggest that the only reason to believe in God is to have someone or something to please and obey. All people have worth regardless of some higher power and or God. Be good to people and help people because people are worth it and you are worth it and life is short and void of anything more than this very moment.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:41 pm
by caribe
I don't think that is what Piglet is thinking. I think that Piglet is thinking that Pooh and Tigger are thinking about not getting spanked when they lie about sending wicked route one. God is there to scare Pooh and Tigger because Pooh and possibly Tigger are more stupid than Piglet.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:31 pm
by Pru
the sad truth is that most people need the fear of some god's wrath or eternal hell fire to make them do what is right and to be the best people they can be. And that right there is the only reason religion has any worth IMHO.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:35 pm
by krampus
exactly pru, but I wouldn't say it is the only reason religion has worth, it also can ease the fear of our inevitable death, and provide comfort when someone you know dies, as well as a support group for people who need someone. The biggest problem is when these groups take there solidarity too far.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:35 pm
by rhunt
When I was reading this thread this morning I was listening the Nine Inch Nails song, "Heresy". How perfect...
"He sewed his eyes shut because he is afraid to see
He tries to tell me what I put inside of me
Hes got the answers to ease my curiosity
He dreamed up a God and called it christianity
Your God is dead and no one cares
If there is a hell I will see you there"
http://www.lyricsfreak.com/n/nine+inch+ ... 00866.html
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 4:42 pm
by Wes
pigsteak wrote:hey paul, if there are no souls and it's all dust to dust, why even bother with these organizations you mention? what's the point of helping a neighbor with a hand up?
anyone?
Well, helping others makes most people feel good about themselves. So doing good things for others is kinda like enlightened self interest. The Dalia Lama talks about it some in a couple of his books. And, to me, he is a pretty good example of a religious leader. Not afraid of science, and in fact, seeks out dialog with researchers, etc. Not totally set in his ways, and willing to change core tenets of his faith if it can be proven, etc.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:25 pm
by Pru
krampus wrote:exactly pru, but I wouldn't say it is the only reason religion has worth, it also can ease the fear of our inevitable death, and provide comfort when someone you know dies, as well as a support group for people who need someone. The biggest problem is when these groups take there solidarity too far.
of course religious organizations offer support and fellowship, but they don't have the patent on that, so to me it is not a differentiator.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:58 pm
by pigsteak
so now helping others is a selfish pursuit?
if we all die and go to hell, go to heaven, or go no where, I still see no benefit in helping others out, besides that I get a tingly good feeling for doing such.
rhunt, you say all individuals have equal worth? now there is a can of worms...you can honestly say you believe jerry falwell, ted bundy, and you all have the same 'worth"....? last I knew, people on here say religious people as having less worth because of their misguided intentions and beliefs.. btw, how to you scientifically prove this worth you speak of? seems like alot of hogwash faith goes into making such broad statements about humankind...
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:58 pm
by charlie
These discussions are so messy. For me to even begin to weigh in I have to draw lines between religion, spirituality, and faith. More often than not from what I've seen you can have faith and spirituality and remain disgusted by religion. That's the column I generally find myself in.
re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow.
—Idiom
9. get religion, Informal.
a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.
b. to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 6:02 pm
by Yasmeen
pigsteak wrote:so now helping others is a selfish pursuit?
pigsteak then wrote:I get a tingly good feeling for [helping others out].
It's fun to watch you talk to yourself, Piggie.