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I wish there were more good dog owners, but sadly, 9 out of 10 dogs at the crag do not have proper crag manners. They shit when owner is climbing, and forget to tell them. They bark when you come around a corner, then owner has to say "its ok, he's friendly". They walk all over your pack and rope. They piss under overhangs, because they can't be taught where to go. I don't feel sympathy for people living in a van and have their dog and nowhere to leave them. I live in a van also, but I choose NOT to have a dog, because I don't want the responsibility to have a dog with perfect crag manners....because they dont come natural even if the owners have them. I witnessed Adam Taylor getting bit in April at the Lode, by a "sleeping dog." Also, people are much more likely to stay on trails than dogs, thus minimizing erosion and environmental impact. I know the dog owners will disagree, but this is the way I see it.

most of the dog problems you listed are eliminated or reduced by leashing your dog. Barking and digging takes training but even an unruly dog is less of an issue tied up. plus running your dog in an open area before showing to the clif helps a lot.

ReachHigh wrote:most of the dog problems you listed are eliminated or reduced by leashing your dog. Barking and digging takes training but even an unruly dog is less of an issue tied up. plus running your dog in an open area before showing to the clif helps a lot.

I will somewhat agree. But leashing needs to be away from base of cliff as to not interfere with climbers, but not out in the woods, so fido can trample vegetation in another area. Problem comes in that MOST dog owners think their dog is the best, and never causes problems. Just like most parents think their kids are the prettiest, smartest, whatever. If dog owners did the things you said, I wouldn't be observing the things I said in 9 out of 10 dogs at the crag.

One of the amazing things that Never ceases is the talk of impact. Impact to what? there are no known "special" aspects of the base of the climbs at roadside. Because the land changes over time you call it "impact" its pure aesthetics. There is no actual "impact". A year after people stop going there the jungle will take over the trodden areas. Fallow ground doesn't stay fallow in the Red too long. Erosion is another factor. The "base" of the cliffline slips. And then what, does the cliff fall down. I'm gonna go with no on that. Just because the foilage is pushed back and the base receeds. It dosen't have any "actual" impact.

So all of this talk of saturation is just that talk. I have a suspicion that the ones who complain the most of the "problem" are the ones who frequent the over=populated areas the most.

I vote for closing all the crags in the southern region as well. Climbers don't tolerate other climbers too well. Bob shut his, Grant shut his. I think we should maybe institute "rolling Black-outs" through out all climbing areas. Even on crags that aren't impacted. That way we can help people realize how precarious access actually is in jeopardy.

um, that was my idea clevis...take a number.

vertical1 wrote:

ReachHigh wrote:most of the dog problems you listed are eliminated or reduced by leashing your dog. Barking and digging takes training but even an unruly dog is less of an issue tied up. plus running your dog in an open area before showing to the clif helps a lot.

I will somewhat agree. But leashing needs to be away from base of cliff as to not interfere with climbers, but not out in the woods, so fido can trample vegetation in another area. Problem comes in that MOST dog owners think their dog is the best, and never causes problems. Just like most parents think their kids are the prettiest, smartest, whatever. If dog owners did the things you said, I wouldn't be observing the things I said in 9 out of 10 dogs at the crag.

amen

Hahaha, my favorite is when the dog runs up after having rolled in turds, carcasses, or poison ivy (especially this time of the year), rubs themselves all over their clueless owner, digs a big hole, then plops down on top of their rope!!

dustonian wrote:Hahaha, my favorite is when the dog runs up after having rolled in turds, carcasses, or poison ivy (especially this time of the year), rubs themselves all over their clueless owner, digs a big hole, then plops down on top of their rope!!

thats my dog for sure....lol

Clevis Hitch wrote:One of the amazing things that Never ceases is the talk of impact. Impact to what? there are no known "special" aspects of the base of the climbs at roadside. Because the land changes over time you call it "impact" its pure aesthetics. There is no actual "impact". A year after people stop going there the jungle will take over the trodden areas. Fallow ground doesn't stay fallow in the Red too long. Erosion is another factor. The "base" of the cliffline slips. And then what, does the cliff fall down. I'm gonna go with no on that. Just because the foilage is pushed back and the base receeds. It dosen't have any "actual" impact.

So you are saying you wouldn't mind if I drove my truck through your yard doing donuts? Your grass will grow back. I can think of several climbs that are seperate rocks the could potentially slip. I have been at Long Wall when that happened. We all heard it, the entire face to the left of Rock Wars moved a little bit. I see what you are saying but if you were the owner you would think differently.

So it took 15 to 17 pages but it's official! This is now a Dogs thread, maybe the dog owners that bring the dogs to the crags will someday realize that even the people that stop to pet the dog or say "Oh, your dog is beautiful" don't really want the dog at the crag. Just to be clear, I have a great dog that if brought to a crag will just lay down and sleep all day. I still leave him at home, when someone is at a crag you just don't need the extra distractions or the potential that your dog might decide to do something to piss someone off.

I for one think it's hilarious that with all the developed climbing in and around the Red that everyone is so upset that Torrent and Roadside are closed, so what.

Lets just move on and try not to screw up the areas we have now and in the future so they don't get closed as well, we better get to making some signs and putting into place some strict guidelines or there is going to be more of this soon.