RRC Archives

Tzilla wrote:Hi Grant, Tod Anderson here, a voice from the past. ..... and despite being an old broken climber found the place amazing.

Finally someone willing to give their own opinion instead of parroting the group think.

How 'bout we find land owners willing to lease the land for - say five years. We go in and tear the shit out of the place from the start. Scorched earth. Barren wasteland within 60 feet of the cliff line. Really lower expectations. Climb like hell on it for five years and leave it to whatever nature can give back to it as we move on to the next big thing.

UniversalRhythm wrote:Not all dogs are horrible. I have a dog and I know that she has her bad dog moments, but as soon as she has those moments I tie her up or leave the crag. I have seen many people do the same and encourage fellow dog owners who's dogs are acting up to follow this model. Generally if you bring it up in a respectful way people respond positively. I fully agree that there should be a leash rule and maybe even just some general rules about no aggressive/barky/trouble/etc dogs allowed (that way if someone's dog is acting up there are rules people can point to). However, I know a lot of climbers who live in their vehicles and have no where to leave their pups. A lot of these same people show up for trail days, give to the RRGCC regularly, and are respectful of crags and their regulations. Not to mention, humans, generally speaking, tend to cause more harm to crags than dogs do. If people who treat the Red like crap can go to the crag, I should be allowed to bring my dog. (unless it's on private property) Just say'n.

Good lord, how many logic fallacies can one possibly shove in a post. A cursory examination sees begging the question (I have dog; has bad moments, but s'okay, we tie up/leave), post hoc (live in car; no where for dog) and weak analogy/false dichotomy (humans cause more damage). Oh, don't forget missing the point (a reason RS close, ownder complaints about dogs digging deep holes)...


how would you enforce/judge "barkiness" or "aggro-ness"? Some dogs are "just fine" until other dogs/people show up. You should listen to zane and that other dude that won't be back.......leave fido's @ home. No one is saying all dogs are horrible...

What's funny (and sad), is even when you try to point out the rules (like NO DOGS ALLOWED in 340 pt font on a sign-can u read?) some dog owners feel they are still exempt...have seen this not only at the red but other crags both east and west....what to do then? Narc to the landowners? Resultant access issues? It's a tough bind that some dog owners put the "general populace" of climbers in...and when your (the royal you, not you personally UR) dogs create access issues as in the case of RS/Torrent and other places, it's not a hatred of dogs but the loss of access that PO's me, personally...

pigsteak wrote:eat toad shit, or eat shit, toad?

lol.....

funny how this thing turns into a dog banning, parking fee, and entrance fee thread. none of these appeared in the original complaint. let me spell it out:

no fixed gear. no new routes without prior approval. too many people so they are closing it to figure out how to deal with it. grant's an attorney. I think he can handle the logistics. if you have ever climbed at RS, you are/were part of the problem. don't be so smug. overcrowding starts with you every time you come to the Red.

Eh? From the OP...I didn't even correct the spelling...but I think the OP spells it out...

There were dogd digging deep holes,.. which may or may not be linked in their opinion to the already severely eroded areas continue to be desimated.

pigsteak wrote:if you have ever climbed at RS, you are/were part of the problem. don't be so smug. overcrowding starts with you every time you come to the Red.

+1

heath wrote:I think we can chalk this whole thing up to the miss use of the grigri.

+1

pigsteak wrote:eat toad shit, or eat shit, toad?

lol.....

funny how this thing turns into a dog banning, parking fee, and entrance fee thread. none of these appeared in the original complaint. let me spell it out:

no fixed gear. no new routes without prior approval. too many people so they are closing it to figure out how to deal with it. grant's an attorney. I think he can handle the logistics. if you have ever climbed at RS, you are/were part of the problem. don't be so smug. overcrowding starts with you every time you come to the Red.

Finally justification to stop climbing and not feel bad about it. I am now a part of the solution, anyone want to buy my rack?

Grant,
I am so very sorry it has come to this. I haven't been there in several years, but I appreciate all you have done for the climbing community. If there is anything I can do to help you, please let me know. It's been a long time since I have seen you. Joyce merritt

goodguy wrote:

pigsteak wrote:eat toad shit, or eat shit, toad?

lol.....

funny how this thing turns into a dog banning, parking fee, and entrance fee thread. none of these appeared in the original complaint. let me spell it out:

no fixed gear. no new routes without prior approval. too many people so they are closing it to figure out how to deal with it. grant's an attorney. I think he can handle the logistics. if you have ever climbed at RS, you are/were part of the problem. don't be so smug. overcrowding starts with you every time you come to the Red.

Finally justification to stop climbing and not feel bad about it. I am now a part of the solution, anyone want to buy my rack?

got a drill for sale?..I want to help spread the crowds out......lol

Go to a new crag and then compare that image with one of Roadside (or any other popular spot) and it's similar to before and after tornado devastation photos. The thing about crag destruction is that it doesn't happen in minutes. It takes years and years of use and abuse and our eyes become desensitized to what is happening right in front of us. If people would lay out of a place for five or so years maybe they will come back with a whole new appreciation of how things look. Maybe the beauty of private land is that it can be closed for a few years in order to rehab?
Grant & John, I wish you the best of luck in this decision.

As far as spreading the word...
Is it time for the RRGCC info board to receive an "Extreme Makeover Kiosk Edition"? That thing seems to be lost in the shuffle that is the scene at Miguel's. I'm thankful that there is an old school bulletin board within eyesight of many visiting climbers, but if it isn't kept fresh it will get overlooked.
Love Eric's idea of distributing info to the other climber frequented campgrounds and businesses.
Lurk's idea of signage and an explanation of closure at the crag and trailhead seems to make the most sense. Easy to over look something on the internet, not so easy at the base of AWOL.