RRC Archives

you make the point perfectly vertical1....these folks are in waaaay over their heads, and are the cause, not the solution.

five of us got together over beers tonight in Lex, and to the man we all thought the permas were a really bad idea. it surprised me that we were all on the same page, as none of us had discussed it before the beers. if "project" draws are such a necessity, what is wrong with the first person up a route in the morning leaving their draws up for the day for everyone else to climb on? last burn of the day, pull them.

leave the disneyland rides in florida where they have no rocks. after a while, the crowds will thin out at the Lode when everyone gets tired of waiting around for the boinkers....if anyone needs suggestions for stellar routes around the gorge to rival the Lode, feel free to PM me. I can only guarantee that your brahs will not be there to shoot sick photos of you...they'll still be queue'd up under chainsaw.

and for gawd's sake, quit saying the draws were stolen...such drama. the draws are at miggie's. feel free to come by and claim yours. and put them on anchors of something worthy instead of merely for your warmup/warmdown convenience.

LOL, hope you like dirt in your pockets and crumbling licheny footholds, Eric!! And you got one thing right pig, the crowds will indeed thin out as they always do... when the weather turns too cold... or too hot... or too humid... 80% of the folks out now are here for the fair weather only, which in these parts doesn't last long, thank gawd.

[FART], indeed.

pigsteak wrote:what is wrong with the first person up a route in the morning leaving their draws up for the day for everyone else to climb on? last burn of the day, pull them.

For the aesthetics of the wall at the end of the day when it's night time and there are no hikers/climbers to see the wall... ok. For the efficiency argument, no way. To think this is some kind of plan for everybody to follow is short-sighted, for many reasons:
1. you want your draws that you know are safe for a route nobody has gotten on yet
2. In a sense the other person is just going to treat your draws as if they were fixed draws anyway and dog their way up taking just as long, now on your draws
3. you want to go to another crag halfway through the day or just quit climbing early
4. if you could actually to get people to follow this, great, but more often then not, many will say when I get to the top i'll change my draws out with yours, which just adds to the inefficiency
5. countless unforeseen reasons

pigsteak wrote:if anyone needs suggestions for stellar routes around the gorge to rival the Lode, feel free to PM me. I can only guarantee that your brahs will not be there to shoot sick photos of you...they'll still be queue'd up under chainsaw.

Maybe we could put up a sign at the base with your phone number on it and a map to area 6, so you can set all the brahs straight. That might cut the numbers.

Heres the guy. Zac Sands. I guess this makes him think he owns the Gorge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VldO6n9-3-0

Green3 wrote: Maybe we could put up a sign at the base with your phone number on it and a map to area 6, so you can set all the brahs straight. That might cut the numbers.

I've never been to Area 6, though I feel if I'm going to give you a hard time, I feel I must also thank you for the many routes you've put up that I have enjoyed. I think I just like playing devil's advocate as much as you do.

Hairylegonfire wrote:Heres the guy. Zac Sands. I guess this makes him think he owns the Gorge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VldO6n9-3-0

he doesn't look like that anymore. he's got blond hair, a ponytail, and he's put on about 40 lbs. yes. just like a young Nick Nolte.

If you haven't dedicated your life to doing what it takes to climb 5.14 on a regular basis then you are just a shitty climber. Well shit, and here I thought it was about just getting out and having a good time.

On a side note, nice video. Anyone else notice the irony of pre-hung draws on that send?

People can debate the aesthetics of permadraws on the wall all day, though I'm not sure that any real decisions should be made on that (at the motherlode specifically) compared to many other factors that seem more important. And assumming anyone who is not an FA or landowner actually has a say anyway, I think at the core of this debate from what I'm reading are the following three basic questions/issues (probably restating what's been said, might just be writing this so I can think it through):


1. Does removing permadraws from the undertow actually decrease traffic to the motherlode?

2. Following the logic of some of the guys who removed the draws: Is there an actual tie between the type of climber who gets on a project over their head and dogs on it until giving up (and possibly wouldn't get on it having to hang draws) and how this person treats the crag? In other words, is this person somehow more likely than others to disrepect the crag in ways other than just taking up a route for a little longer than someone's etiquette recommends if others are waiting?

3. Will there truly be a group to relentlessly police the undertow all year to maintain this policy (and for how long), or if that is not an option, is some steel gear on popular routes and certain crux falls or falls that wear heavily on a draw safer than a sometimes policed situation with aluminum hanging other times?


I would be genuinely interested in hearing from those that took the draws down on these 3 questions, as I think the answers to them are where a lot of the disagreement is stemming from... or I could be wrong.