While I totally disagree with the politics of all this crap, Alan, or anyone who considers being armed for self defense, read this book: In The Gravest Extreme by Ayoob Massad. Kinda cuts through the BS, on both sides.
But, it is an old book, so, be sure to read up on the laws.
SUCK
Re: SUCK
Evil said, " What the fuck is wrong with America? What has happened to us? In my lifetime violent crime by really young teens has gone from shocking aberration to daily occurrence. "
Since you asked...,what went wrong with America was the Welfare State. You just suffered an unintended consequence. When the government freed father's from the responsibility of raising their children (through welfare payments to unwed mothers), these fathers often, quite logically, chose not to stick around. This left children to raise themselves on the streets. With pimps, whores, drug addicts and gangsta rappers as role models, we shouldn't be surprised that these kids don't turn out so well.
Slavery and racism took a terrible toll on the black family. The modern welfare state, with a pure heart, and the best of intentions, pretty much finished it off. How?, by reducing the net economic value of an undereducated black father to near zero.
When I was a child we lived in a desperately poor neighborhood on the north side of Lexington. My dad worked two low-paying full time jobs back to back, 80 hours a week, plus all the overtime he could get. As a second grader, my path to school and back took me through a poor black neighborhood. It never occurred to me, or my parents, that I was at any risk. I never ran into any trouble, so I guess I wasn't. Today, you would never take a chance on letting your kid walk unescorted through that neighborhood.
If the government had made racial discrimination in employment, education, and housing illegal (with enforcement), and then just stayed the hell out of the way, black Americans would have been well on their way to economic parity by now. An attitude of "no special breaks, you want it, you earn it" would have led to an extremely tough and resillient black community, determined and able to make it on their own. Instead, we created a permanent victim class through welfare and entitlements. Sorry, but sometimes, this victim class bites us on the ass. Glad nobody got hurt.
Since you asked...,what went wrong with America was the Welfare State. You just suffered an unintended consequence. When the government freed father's from the responsibility of raising their children (through welfare payments to unwed mothers), these fathers often, quite logically, chose not to stick around. This left children to raise themselves on the streets. With pimps, whores, drug addicts and gangsta rappers as role models, we shouldn't be surprised that these kids don't turn out so well.
Slavery and racism took a terrible toll on the black family. The modern welfare state, with a pure heart, and the best of intentions, pretty much finished it off. How?, by reducing the net economic value of an undereducated black father to near zero.
When I was a child we lived in a desperately poor neighborhood on the north side of Lexington. My dad worked two low-paying full time jobs back to back, 80 hours a week, plus all the overtime he could get. As a second grader, my path to school and back took me through a poor black neighborhood. It never occurred to me, or my parents, that I was at any risk. I never ran into any trouble, so I guess I wasn't. Today, you would never take a chance on letting your kid walk unescorted through that neighborhood.
If the government had made racial discrimination in employment, education, and housing illegal (with enforcement), and then just stayed the hell out of the way, black Americans would have been well on their way to economic parity by now. An attitude of "no special breaks, you want it, you earn it" would have led to an extremely tough and resillient black community, determined and able to make it on their own. Instead, we created a permanent victim class through welfare and entitlements. Sorry, but sometimes, this victim class bites us on the ass. Glad nobody got hurt.
The war on drugs is likely more to blame for our social ills than anything Larry. Day back in the way during prohibition when white folks were shooting at each other, people were not philosophizing about how these punks are no good due to their upbringing, be it what it may have been. The hoods went to jail and learned to be better criminals, after which they got out and did more mischief. The establishment realized soon that the war on ethanol was doing more harm than good. --- so they repealed the war.
If one is involved with narcotraffic one uses the gun as a tool; it comes with the territory. Also drugs put you on the other side of the law naturally, so knocking over Evil is all in a Day's work. Let MD's instead of cops handle addiction and let people who want to ruin their lives with drugs do so. Let's not criminalize drugs and create a black market because the crime and violence follow. The war on drugs is destroying our neighborhoods and endangering the safety of our kids at school. Government cheese is not the reason for the violence. Many people have used food stamps and welfare to get out of bad situations. There are many success stories.
If there is money to be made someone will try to find a way to make it, legally or otherwise. It is not a black or white thing it is a human nature thing.
Evil you have my condolences. Getting ripped off sucks especially at gun point. You did the right thing; you are still alive. Someone else would likely not have survived if they tried to play the hero.
If one is involved with narcotraffic one uses the gun as a tool; it comes with the territory. Also drugs put you on the other side of the law naturally, so knocking over Evil is all in a Day's work. Let MD's instead of cops handle addiction and let people who want to ruin their lives with drugs do so. Let's not criminalize drugs and create a black market because the crime and violence follow. The war on drugs is destroying our neighborhoods and endangering the safety of our kids at school. Government cheese is not the reason for the violence. Many people have used food stamps and welfare to get out of bad situations. There are many success stories.
If there is money to be made someone will try to find a way to make it, legally or otherwise. It is not a black or white thing it is a human nature thing.
Evil you have my condolences. Getting ripped off sucks especially at gun point. You did the right thing; you are still alive. Someone else would likely not have survived if they tried to play the hero.
Last edited by caribe on Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:52 am, edited 5 times in total.
"I am downgrading this thing even though I don't send on TR." Blake while on TR
Caribe, I agree that the war on drugs has been highly counterproductive. And I'm not against a social safety net. I just think it neets to be a safety net, not a trap. Since the criminalization of drugs has been such a miserable failure, maybe we ought to experiment with de-criminalization. It's hard to imagine that this would result in a worse situation than we have currently. If it does, we could call the experiment off. Fat chance of pushing that through, however.
I also agree that Evil did the right thing by cooperating rather than resisting. Unless one thinks things are about to go very wrong, it's almost certainly better not to fight back. I wish I could say this is always the case, but I can't.
In the late seventies I had a dear friend who I'd met through through some climbing courses that I taught. He was still attending U.K. and worked part time at Ashland Liquors. A few months after I moved west I got word that he'd been murdered at work. One evening he was alone in the store for a few minutes between shifts. Someone pulled a gun on him, marched him into the walk-in, shot him in the head, then slit his throat, just to be sure that there wouldn't be a witness to an armed robbery. The son-of-a-bitch made off with the contents of the till, and this world lost as kind-hearted a human being as one could ever hope to meet.
The lesson I took from this is don't ever let an armed assailant "kidnap" you. That is, don't go anywhere with them. Better to take your stand right there, or run like hell, than to risk letting them take you to an out of sight or confined area where you can offer no resistence whatsoever.
I also agree that Evil did the right thing by cooperating rather than resisting. Unless one thinks things are about to go very wrong, it's almost certainly better not to fight back. I wish I could say this is always the case, but I can't.
In the late seventies I had a dear friend who I'd met through through some climbing courses that I taught. He was still attending U.K. and worked part time at Ashland Liquors. A few months after I moved west I got word that he'd been murdered at work. One evening he was alone in the store for a few minutes between shifts. Someone pulled a gun on him, marched him into the walk-in, shot him in the head, then slit his throat, just to be sure that there wouldn't be a witness to an armed robbery. The son-of-a-bitch made off with the contents of the till, and this world lost as kind-hearted a human being as one could ever hope to meet.
The lesson I took from this is don't ever let an armed assailant "kidnap" you. That is, don't go anywhere with them. Better to take your stand right there, or run like hell, than to risk letting them take you to an out of sight or confined area where you can offer no resistence whatsoever.
Last edited by L K Day on Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
I think they called that the LA Riots.
gunslnga wrote:Japan maybe not, but Europe, wtf, thay are rapidly taking the lead.......
France cant even send police into the Muslim Ghettos with out getting they're
collective butts whipped. They burned over 400 cars in 10 days, you ever see that happen here???
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
- Robert McCloskey
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
- Emo Philips
- Robert McCloskey
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing.
- Emo Philips
True that, L. K. I believe I read that even trained gunmen only hit a moving target 25%. Adding a zig-zag running pattern to that increases your chances of survival.
I work with a girl who was confronted in a parking lot across from the UK student center. It was early evening and many people were out and about. The gunman stuck the gun in her ribs and said, "We're going to have a lot of fun." She screamed and ran toward the area she was supposed to meet her friends. She was hit in the thigh, but kept running. Meanwhile, people began to respond, and the gunman fled. I shudder to think of how her life might have ended if she hadn't run.
Alan was wise to cooperate since robbery appeared to be the motive. I've read that if the mugger asks only for your purse or wallet, throw it and run. That may be all they are after, and even if not, they will generally go after the money while you put some distance between you and the gun.
Another friend and her mother were confronted one night while they were out for an evening run. Her mother was so frightened that she threw up.
The robber must have had a weak stomach because they heard him say, "Eww," while he was running away. 
I love that story and how it ended!
I work with a girl who was confronted in a parking lot across from the UK student center. It was early evening and many people were out and about. The gunman stuck the gun in her ribs and said, "We're going to have a lot of fun." She screamed and ran toward the area she was supposed to meet her friends. She was hit in the thigh, but kept running. Meanwhile, people began to respond, and the gunman fled. I shudder to think of how her life might have ended if she hadn't run.
Alan was wise to cooperate since robbery appeared to be the motive. I've read that if the mugger asks only for your purse or wallet, throw it and run. That may be all they are after, and even if not, they will generally go after the money while you put some distance between you and the gun.
Another friend and her mother were confronted one night while they were out for an evening run. Her mother was so frightened that she threw up.
The robber must have had a weak stomach because they heard him say, "Eww," while he was running away. I love that story and how it ended!What I love about running is you can meditate while running. It's a peaceful place.
Sister Mary Elizabeth Lloyd, Runs marathons to raise money and awareness about children orphaned by AIDS
Sister Mary Elizabeth Lloyd, Runs marathons to raise money and awareness about children orphaned by AIDS
Watts. Don't forget Detroit and D.C. D.C. is still scarred badly.meetVA wrote:I think they called that the LA Riots.
gunslnga wrote:Japan maybe not, but Europe, wtf, thay are rapidly taking the lead.......
France cant even send police into the Muslim Ghettos with out getting they're
collective butts whipped. They burned over 400 cars in 10 days, you ever see that happen here???
[size=75]You are as bad as Alan, and even he hits the mark sometimes. -charlie
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
Hear hear. The countries with the least violent crime also just happen to be the ones with the strongest* welfare states. It is, in the long run, better for all of us if we don't let our fellow citizens ever slip into abject poverty. By keeping people out of the abyss you allow them to see they can move away from the edge... if they can. Let's face it, there will always be people that just can't take care of their shit and making their life bearable keeps them from fucking things up for the rest of us.L K Day wrote:And I'm not against a social safety net. I just think it needs to be a safety net, not a trap.
*By strong I mean it not only helps more people with more benefits but also the underlying bureaucracy is robust enough to minimize fraud or under/over payment to the needy.
[size=75]You are as bad as Alan, and even he hits the mark sometimes. -charlie
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]
"Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill[/size]