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dear mr underoos...
you are talking in circles. you just said that a harder grade you had to work for is more fulfilling than a route rated easier...therefore, my flower child, you are allowing your pleasure quotient to be dictated by the grade attached, and are not pure climbing.
so let's say I jump on a route rated 12c....that being my limit, if I find the moves impossible after several goes, I may decide it is a slash route. therefore, I "may" just move on instead of beating my head against it, knowing that is out of my current fitness level. on the other hand, if it was honestly rated at 13a, then I would have had the sense to not even stick clip up it in the first place.
I still don't buy that pleasure is tied to the grade...working for a route is working for a route, no matter the number. if I battle for it, I enjoy the struggle. period.
now mr. chrisssssssss, what you whining about with sweet tater?
you are talking in circles. you just said that a harder grade you had to work for is more fulfilling than a route rated easier...therefore, my flower child, you are allowing your pleasure quotient to be dictated by the grade attached, and are not pure climbing.
so let's say I jump on a route rated 12c....that being my limit, if I find the moves impossible after several goes, I may decide it is a slash route. therefore, I "may" just move on instead of beating my head against it, knowing that is out of my current fitness level. on the other hand, if it was honestly rated at 13a, then I would have had the sense to not even stick clip up it in the first place.
I still don't buy that pleasure is tied to the grade...working for a route is working for a route, no matter the number. if I battle for it, I enjoy the struggle. period.
now mr. chrisssssssss, what you whining about with sweet tater?
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
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Horatio Felacio
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Roentgen Ray
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ahh pigsnuts, has your time come to pass ? imagine this....2 amazing climbs, movements on both 5 stars, positions on both 5 stars, length on both 5 stars, weather on both 5 stars and your climbing level on both 5 stars. if one route feels 2 letter grades easier than what you expected and the other feels right on or a little hard for what you expected. which route are you going to talk about , recommend and remember ?
we do agree on one thing. grades are just for campfire/internet debates and definitely are not the basis of enjoyment for me and many others. but when you place a # on a route that implies many things. how hard it is, do i have business on it and how much booty will this send get me. basically if you talk to the fa, look in the guide or go off a recommendation you have a grade attached to the route. no matter who you are that # does stick in your mind while on the route. to me, and i can only talk about me, you can look at it how you want. i like to try hard for whatever grade it is and make others try just the same. so unless you just have the rack and shirt on your back and go out into the woods and just pick a line based on how it looks, which is very fun, you should try it sometime, you will always have that # in your head and expect certain things from that #. your argument would work if we didnt have grades . but since we do have grades and will never stray from them i think we as climbers should have to work for the grades. 15 years down the road do you want to be remembered as being a softy or a stiffy ?
we do agree on one thing. grades are just for campfire/internet debates and definitely are not the basis of enjoyment for me and many others. but when you place a # on a route that implies many things. how hard it is, do i have business on it and how much booty will this send get me. basically if you talk to the fa, look in the guide or go off a recommendation you have a grade attached to the route. no matter who you are that # does stick in your mind while on the route. to me, and i can only talk about me, you can look at it how you want. i like to try hard for whatever grade it is and make others try just the same. so unless you just have the rack and shirt on your back and go out into the woods and just pick a line based on how it looks, which is very fun, you should try it sometime, you will always have that # in your head and expect certain things from that #. your argument would work if we didnt have grades . but since we do have grades and will never stray from them i think we as climbers should have to work for the grades. 15 years down the road do you want to be remembered as being a softy or a stiffy ?
http://www.redriveroutdoors.com
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
If you need to contact me , email me. Less Internet, less stress
do I want to be remembered as a stiffy?...by the wife....YES.
ash, I'll move any grade on any route that y'all deem necessary. my typical response is, I prefer to move the numbers down, but never up. So if my 12a's need to be 11c, just let me know. I think it is completely comical to use the justification "well, the FA called it a 5.X, so we need to leave it there"...nonsense....change it to reflect today's consensus. afterall, this is the holy book, but rock climbing.
glad you like blank canvas....I bailed before sending, so I also have that in the back of my mind.
ash, I'll move any grade on any route that y'all deem necessary. my typical response is, I prefer to move the numbers down, but never up. So if my 12a's need to be 11c, just let me know. I think it is completely comical to use the justification "well, the FA called it a 5.X, so we need to leave it there"...nonsense....change it to reflect today's consensus. afterall, this is the holy book, but rock climbing.
glad you like blank canvas....I bailed before sending, so I also have that in the back of my mind.
Positive vibes brah...positive vibes.
The semi-civility of this discussion has been refreshing. Kudos to all.
For those who grade 'em...
As an old dude who is practically a newb, I've used the numbers in just about every way described. Primarily as a guide to discern if I should tie in or if I'm just going to get spanked and I should wander down the wall. I've also used them to help me progress in difficulty, raising my climbing ability to the next level (even if it's considered a baby step).
As for slash, I always figured that person who graded just couldn't make up their mind or that they were so in tune with the rock that they could tell the route was in between grades. Now, I approach a slash route with the thought, "hmm, this could be easy, this could be hard; I'll have to get on it to find out."
As far as the 'soft' versus 'hard' grades, I've found that one climber's cherry route is another climber's bane. I believe a climb's ease or difficulty is more dependent on individual climbing styles and strengths.
Only opinions, formed over the last couple of years.
I haven't progressed to the walk in the woods with a rack status, but perhaps someday...
For those who grade 'em...
As an old dude who is practically a newb, I've used the numbers in just about every way described. Primarily as a guide to discern if I should tie in or if I'm just going to get spanked and I should wander down the wall. I've also used them to help me progress in difficulty, raising my climbing ability to the next level (even if it's considered a baby step).
As for slash, I always figured that person who graded just couldn't make up their mind or that they were so in tune with the rock that they could tell the route was in between grades. Now, I approach a slash route with the thought, "hmm, this could be easy, this could be hard; I'll have to get on it to find out."
As far as the 'soft' versus 'hard' grades, I've found that one climber's cherry route is another climber's bane. I believe a climb's ease or difficulty is more dependent on individual climbing styles and strengths.
Only opinions, formed over the last couple of years.
I haven't progressed to the walk in the woods with a rack status, but perhaps someday...
Pick myself up, stop lookin' back.
Grand Funk Railroad
Grand Funk Railroad