Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:56 am
climbing has way too many rules and drama for not supposed to have any rules or drama. i stay confused and amused so maybe thats why i like it so much.
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Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:56 am
Don't let assholes lead your shit.
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:15 am
FA= first ascent used to be aid, once it goes free it turns into a FFA, first free ascent and most of the time gets renamed. Old school mentality but whatever floats your boat! 
Trad anyway, sport has its own set of ethics not to say it is better or worse.
Trad anyway, sport has its own set of ethics not to say it is better or worse.Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:16 am
Wes wrote:
TR = doesn't count, person who sends on lead = fa, plus naming rights.
**************
Yup. What he said. Except the part about others getting credit. Does that mean if pigsteak knocks himself out bolting a route and Joe Dickinear flashes it with a belay from his pet hamster, the Joe is within his rights to credit the hamster and leave out the pig?
ZSpider
TR = doesn't count, person who sends on lead = fa, plus naming rights.
**************
Yup. What he said. Except the part about others getting credit. Does that mean if pigsteak knocks himself out bolting a route and Joe Dickinear flashes it with a belay from his pet hamster, the Joe is within his rights to credit the hamster and leave out the pig?
ZSpider
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:20 am
Ken, on a trad line, the second that followed and cleaned ,and did it clean,gets credit or not?
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:22 am
One-fall wrote:
Disrespecting red tags is wrong. Period.
******************
So is wearing purple socks with green shorts.
ZSpider
Disrespecting red tags is wrong. Period.
******************
So is wearing purple socks with green shorts.
ZSpider
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:38 am
i was told recently (by a pretty reliable source) that one must...
1. discover the cliff (no exceptions)
2. bushwhack to the top (purists say this must be done in oppressive heat)
3. drop fixed lines and drill the entire route without advice as to bolt placement
4. spend all your disposable income on hardware, drill bits, and the like
5. develop the entire trail system and area around the base
6. hide in the weeds to protect your red tagged route from unethical choads who would steal your thunder
AND
7. videotape your rope solo
THEN...
you can submit DR (dept. of red) form 11 to piggie for route naming rights.
thanks for squaring me away...
regards.
r.r.
1. discover the cliff (no exceptions)
2. bushwhack to the top (purists say this must be done in oppressive heat)
3. drop fixed lines and drill the entire route without advice as to bolt placement
4. spend all your disposable income on hardware, drill bits, and the like
5. develop the entire trail system and area around the base
6. hide in the weeds to protect your red tagged route from unethical choads who would steal your thunder
AND
7. videotape your rope solo
THEN...
you can submit DR (dept. of red) form 11 to piggie for route naming rights.
thanks for squaring me away...
regards.
r.r.
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:07 pm
you know, all in all, it really just comes down to whatever the guidebook author decides to write in the guide.
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:34 pm
there ya go....so kiss up to Ray first and foremost.
I'd say the second on a trad route should not get any credit on the FA.
I'd say the second on a trad route should not get any credit on the FA.
Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:49 pm
I don't understand how a 'team' gets a first ascent of a sport route. Big wall lines, mountain summits, multi-pitch...all make sense; but a sport line is an individual effort on the 'ascent'. If you want give credit to all that made it possible, then give them credit in a byline, but not as the FA. Think about it, FA of a 50' sport route by 3 people? F equals First.
TR doesn't count. If TR counted, then why bother bolting? Just go to the cliffline, drop a rope and start bagging lines. You could probably knock out a whole crag in a day.
The whole southern region development looks a lot like a land grab to me, watching from afar and getting the news as it pours in via teletype. Everyone seems to want to get as many routes up as possible, as quick as possible. If you don't have the time or the skill to send it, but you gotta bolt it before someone else gets it, then open it up. If you want the FA, then bolt a reasonable line, tag it and work it. Are the egos getting so big that people must have more than a couple of tagged projects?
In the end, the guide book author will include what he/she wants and feels is appropriate and then everyone else can debate it in a forum like this one.
TR doesn't count. If TR counted, then why bother bolting? Just go to the cliffline, drop a rope and start bagging lines. You could probably knock out a whole crag in a day.
The whole southern region development looks a lot like a land grab to me, watching from afar and getting the news as it pours in via teletype. Everyone seems to want to get as many routes up as possible, as quick as possible. If you don't have the time or the skill to send it, but you gotta bolt it before someone else gets it, then open it up. If you want the FA, then bolt a reasonable line, tag it and work it. Are the egos getting so big that people must have more than a couple of tagged projects?
In the end, the guide book author will include what he/she wants and feels is appropriate and then everyone else can debate it in a forum like this one.