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GEEZUSPHUCKINGKRISTE do we have to hear this same old argument again??

Gretchen, last time this EXACT same issue came up, you said you were done arguing this KNOWING that this would be published. These arguements which DRAW ATTENTION to the controversy do FAR MORE HARM then the quiet presence of these routes in an on-line data base.

Can this PLEASE be laid to rest now?

That is absoulutly BULLSHIT. Go ahead and censor me. Being on-line is not QUIET! Do a google search for the forest supervisor's name, what do YOU come up with?

Not a damn thing quiet about an on-line guide. Stop fooling yourselves.

And I am not going away on this subject. I am still breathing

2nd post on this page, http://www.redriverclimbing.com/viewtop ... &start=105

Gretchen wrote:I said my peace.

There are other ways to facilitate positive change... think about it.

Obiviously it has not died down nor has there been change. Members of this board or still looking for beta that is not ready for publication because access is not secured.

I wish I could say my peace. I was hoping that it was the end of this issue.

So here is my peace for the public forum. Meet me for beer so we can chat like civilized people. Set it up.

What impact will posting beta to those locations have on the RRGCC's interest in the purchase of private land? What if I contact Murray and get the okay to publish the route info just like John had already done with Oil Crack, etc.?
Hmmmm...I think I'll do that.

That would be great! Please contact them.

Ray that sounds like a great idea.

Gretchen, why do you bring up the forest service in relation to this particular access issue, anyway? This is private land we're talking about. The access issues are unrelated, except by virtue of the fact that the RRGCC is working to secure them.

Gretchen wrote:Do a google search for the forest supervisor's name, what do YOU come up with?

Am I missing something here? Does the FS now have jurisdiction over this land or will they after the RRGCC closes the deal? Please tell me that is not what is being negotiated.

It is an avenue that we are looking into. ONCE CLIMBING IS SECURED ON FS LAND! When we can outright pay several hundred thousands of dollars to outright purchase private land, carry insurance, land maintenance then we will retain the land. But until we can do some serious fundraising, private large cash donations to the RRGCC, we can't do it alone! So can you see the necessity of have a working, open relationship with an organization such as the USFS?

Ray if you need help getting the number for the Murrays, just let me know.

I'm very discouraged to hear that this is a land swap arrangment, handing the land off to the FS. I realize options are limited, but I'm vehemently opposed to this avenue. (I'm holding back here, big time.) Is The Access Fund board aware of the details of this proposal? Have their funds been applied for? Have ALL OTHER avenues been explored?

My god, now tell me how the hell some geek publishing route beta via an online guidebook is going to screw up these big money deals? Gimme a break. Sometimes I think you just bitch to bitch.