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Ahh Piggie, I'm not assigning my own values to someone else. The Webers probably don't care what you or I think about their belief of what is and is not as natural as possible. Since it's their land, however, don't you believe the ethics are for them to establish?

I vote for spraying them. That route is so much fun!

Funny how since becoming a climber I've become somewhat less of an environmentalist...

Often I have great difficulty in deciding how "natural" to leave a route. How much cleaning is really necessary, how much vegetation should be removed, loose rocks, lichen, nests, insect life, trees, shrubs, flowers, etc. ??? Sometimes these things keep me up at night worrying about the miniature ecosystems that I have just destroyed. Personally I would rather just drill a few holes and leave the routes how I found them, but I don't think that most climbers would appreciate such a minimalistic philosophy. So, in many ways, I have become much less of an environmentalist as well. However, I also believe that getting out in Nature is very important to understanding why it is so special.

i would say that a few hornets don't constitute a major divergence from an environmental ethic. if it in any way endangered the species, yeah, you'd have a reason for concern. however, hornets have plenty of wall (even at the solarium) to make a home and hornets aren't in danger of low populations or bottlenecks. letting everything live isn't an environmental ethic.. so feel free to spray

Very good point, Paul. We should put up signs directing those little guys to where they can build their home.

Meadows wrote:Very good point, Paul. We should put up signs directing those little guys to where they can build their home.

or maybe tick marks where they can't..

"Since it's their land, however, don't you believe the ethics are for them to establish?"

Yup, I do..just like with big oil companies and real estate developers.

Let's get this post back on task!!!

I was out at the Solarium yesterday for the first time and even with 10,000,000,000% humidity it was phenomenal! I can't wait to go back this fall when conditions are better and get on everythign there.

Anyhow my partner and I got on Banshee and both clipped the anchors. We had intentions of cleaning the thing and letting Sprag know but decided not to risk it being clipped into the anchors with the bee's up there. We were able to climb quielty and smothly around to the right and clip the anchors as the wasp's were building there nest just down and ot the left of the left most anchor. They are definitley in there working hard.. there werea bout 4 of them. It sucks that they are ther as the route is killer. We did clean the locker and other bail biener off the route so whoever's they are just let me know and I'll get them back to you.

We also did the climb to the left that shares the start with this one... the climb on amazing orange rock... awesome! There was a lone bail draw on the route in the middle of the crux and I cleaned that too after sending. So if that is yours and you want it back describe it to me and I'll get it back to you too.

I am thinking about going out there again on Friday and may spray the wasps off of Banshee at the end of the day when they are tired and lazy... as the concensus onthis thread seems to be that it is OK for me to do this. If we let the nest get too big this climb may be out of comission for a while.

Unfortunatley Sprag I don't think I'll clip in to the anchors to clean your draws...but I'll let you know if I do.

I think the draw on the 12 was a sorta fixed/working draw, so if you go back, maybe replace it? It was there when I was on the route a few weeks ago. Both are killer routes, the 12 has a really hard crux move if you are not super tall...

the 12 has a really hard crux move if you are not super tall...

How would you know that Wes? You're really tall for your height.