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Are we talking about "other critters"? No, we're not, we're talking about endangered critters. And in case you haven't noticed, this is a forum almost entirely devoted to talking about routes in the Red and its hardly been mentioned before. So I don't think there's really that many. Hence the endangered listing. So if you know of any routes with endangered critters on them, lets hear it. Maybe they do "need closed".

Okay maybe 100 with endangered critters. And by the way it has been mentioned before. Also, you really don't want that list. Trust me.

I wouldn't have asked for it if I didn't want it. Trust me.

Sorry, I love climbing at the Red too much to freely offer such information on this website.

Gee, I thought you knew about 300 or so routes? Darn. Well, you let us know when you get that list together. Then we'll just take them off the endangered list.

So you'd like climbing in the red just as much without any critters around?

Dude, did you have problems in school with reading comprehension? These critters (endangered or nonendangered) are a lot more common at the Red than most people realize. I don't care if there are critters on routes. They don't harm me and I don't harm them. I still enjoy climbing with or without them. I studied biology at Indiana University for 4 years so of course I have a deep appreciation and understanding of Nature. By the way, these rats are not endangered in Kentucky. If you're so worried about it then why don't you stop climbing at the Red. These little guys are everywhere!

No, I didn't have that problem. Did you? I understand your little message you're conveying, but I hate to tell you that you, and all of us ARE harming them by climbing and tromping through their habitat.

Comprehend this: The point of the original post was to avoid climbing on this route for a while so this little dude could survive the winter and maybe move on. You responded by saying if we were going to do this we might as well close all the routes in the Red! Great, educated reaction! What exactly did you do for those 4 years?

I'm not going to climb on that route. I already climbed it. I'm just saying that there are many more routes that are home to countless rats, bats, squirrels, birds, snakes, etc. Do you recommend avoiding all of them? Why just pick one to avoid? Obviously he is surviving just fine with or without us. Probably better with us due to our waste hence the collection of human litter. If anything we are helping him to survive. These creatures are strong and adaptable. They are fucking rats! They will not only survive... they will prevail!

Oh yeah, and I climbed at the Red and all over the country for those 4 years! Also, wood rats are vectors for several disease causing protozoans. They also host copious quantities of Lxodes pacificus and Lxodes scapularis (Lyme disese carrying ticks).

P.S. Did I mention that they are not endangered?

These are eastern wood rats. Not Allegheny wood rats. Maybe you alarmists out there should think about what you are saying before you all start jumping to conclusions. Climbing at the Red will be endangered, not these hardy rats. I love nature just as much as everybody else, but I don't see the point in closing a route because of a resident rat considering that there are resident rats (and other critters) on countless climbs at the Red. I'm proactively in support of continued climbing at this beautiful area. Do you guys think we should also close: The Underling, The Return of Chris Snyder, Creature Feature, Bedtime for Bonzo, Cruising Lane, etc. etc.? They have resident wood rats also!!! Save them! Don't climb any of these routes. Don't you guys know they are endangered??? The climbers will become the endangered ones if this bullshit continues.

Well, to cool the rhetoric down a little, I'll just jump in here with my RRG Eastern Wood Rat tale. So to make a long story boring...

Last spring I was up on a ledge above a project (Bad Dentures) in the Joe Ponder Branch of Muir Valley. I crawled out on a very narrow ledge about 70 feet up to rig a top rope on a protruding tree. In a tight uncomfortable position, unbeknownst to me, my billfold slipped out of my back pocket. Later, when it came time to pay Mark for a barbeque -- no money.

After retracing the day's activities, I guessed that the most probable place it popped out was at the top of Bad Dentures. So, the next morning I crawled back out on the ledge, and found a puzzling scene. My credit cards, which had been securely stored in the wallet, were lying on the ledge where I had been the previous day. But, the wallet itself and about $300 in currency was gone. I was sure no two legged rat had been up there and I remembered the stories told by Porter, Tim and others about the woodrats (better known as pack rats) running off with keys and similar objects at Miguels love shack in the early RRG days. So, I crawled along the ledge about 20 feet farther, and where it disappeared into a little rat cave was my wallet and cash seriously nibbled but recoverable.

Now, how or why the little critter removed the credit cards before dragging the wallet off for a late night snack still puzzles me.

One thing for sure about these fuzzy critters. They don't snarl and growl at each other as much as the folks on this forum.

Rick