do terms even matter anymore?

[Yasmeen]

It depends on if you're going for more of a mental or physical onsight, in my opinion. It's still hard to pull through tough moves on your first attempt on route, regardless of the presence of chalked holds. You don't know exactly how your body's going to respond to the moves and you don't have the muscle memory down. I agree that an onsight is more impressive if there's no chalk helping you out, but I would still consider it an onsight if there are chalked holds on the route. Saying otherwise is getting exceedingly nitpicky.

PS-- Thanks, Pig, I didn't want to have to erase Face Up from my Spray List.

[pigsteak]

no prob..come to think of it..I still need to send that route...

its just all super funny to me....when Ray created me, the forum bot, it was my destiny to point out any and all hypocrisy in our personal value systems...

but I got so overloaded with hype and spin from the masses on here, that I had to give up the battle.

don't chip holds, but drill a bolt.
don't clean lichen, but create a trail
don't spray paint trees, but leave colored draws hanging
leave the boom box at home, but yell and curse on route
don't step on a rope, but ignore when your damn dog does it...
save the environment, but everyone owns a personal car, and drives it to the crag
climb for self, but post on the spray board
believe in responsibility, but fuck the oil workers

[ynot]

Something else to think about... Theres a long list of people on the tick list for Zambeezi Plunge. How much you want to bet not more than 3 of them did the second pitch? The same goes for Africa,Arachnid,The 3rd pitch of Roadside attraction,and 40 other routes.Seems to be common to call it an onsight or redpoint
when the route wasn't even finished.

[Yasmeen]

To have done the second pitch, do you mean to have topped out completely, or to have gone up to the anchors of that slab to the right of it?

[ynot]

The guidebook clearly mentions a second pitch.

[merrick]

the third pitch of roadside is about ten feet. you could do all three in one. i downclimbed to the nice anchors instead of rapping of a tree.