RRG Test Pieces - 12a,b,c,d

[allah]

12a-Gung Ho (same reasons as SCIN)
12b-Hellraiser
12c-Jesus Wept
12d-Paradise Lost

[Power2U]

Wow, Paradise lost has gone from 13b to 12d! I like it downgrade everything!

Test pieces -"Classic hard lines in each grade." These should never EVER be up graded! I don't care how many people think 8-Ball is 13a, or Bare Metal Teen is 12b, they never be should be upgraded! By the way how did Berlier's Bane get from 11c to 12a?????

12a - Mama Benson & Bare Metal Teen
12b - Big Money Grip & Stain (another victim of upgradeitis)
12c - Out on a Limb(maybe not a classic but definitely some sick face climbing!) & Malice
12d- Team Wilson & 8-Ball

[SCIN]

Just for that i'm going to upgrade all of those. Yes I upgraded Burlier's and Stain a long time ago.

[THB]

For me... I think it comes down to style...

For example... I think Too Many Puppies is low-end 12a, I think Mercy is spot on for 12b (but not a benchmark or test piece for the grade by any stretch of the imagination), Iniquity is not a test piece for the grade at all! And some people are starting to say the boulder problem start is optional?? That's a load of BS! (At least I read one person comment about this on 8a.nu). If you don't do the boulder problem on Iniquity then you climbed an 11+ at most... with the boulder problem, I would consider it low-end 12b. I think Hellraiser is low-end 12c (in fact, I support keeping this one 12b and just considering it hard for the grade), and whereas Jesus Wept took me many tries (and was tough for me)... I can see why people think it's low-end 12d (but it didn't feel so for me)...

For me... my proudest sends of each 5.12 grade in the red are as follows:

12a: Chainsaw (squabble over this all you want... but it took me more tries than any other 12a I've done in the gorge, many more than Bare Metal... heck, more tries than most of the 12b's I've done in the gorge)
12b: Hellraiser (I don't think there are many "test piece" 12b's in the rrg, at least not any of the ones I've done... maybe Soul Ram or American Dreams, but I've never been on either of those...)
12c: Heart Shaped Box (I'm surprised no one mentioned Steel Worker, I've heard it's tough for the grade, but I can't comment on that one because I've never been on it!)
12d: 8-Ball

[THB]

12c Hellraiser, Jesus Wept

Haha... these 2 routes are on a completely different level in my opinion... I don't understand how you can put them at the same grade... if you call them both 12c, then Hellraiser is the easiest 12c in the gorge in my opinion... and jesus wept is the hardest.

They don't even compare in grade level... maybe you are just too strong to realize that.

[dustonian]

I thought Jesus Wept felt easier than Hellraiser. Maybe you just suck at vert and I suck at steep?

[THB]

I think it's funny to hear what people think is a "test piece" for the grade...

I'm sure people disagree with the list that I posted, and that's all fine and dandy... but like I said, I think it comes down to style... I'm not a great endurance climber, but put a boulder problem low on a route and follow it with some easier climbing (Hellraiser, Iniquity, etc...) and I don't think it's that bad... Make it sustained without much resting (8-Ball, Chainsaw, etc...) and those are the routes that are tough for me...

Wildfire and Twinkie are both awesome 12a's, some of my favorites in the whole gorge... but not a test piece at the grade for me...
Gung Ho and Tic Tac Toe, again, really awesome routes... but neither is a test piece for 12b in my opinion...

[THB]

I thought Jesus Wept felt easier than Hellraiser. Maybe you just suck at vert and I suck at steep?

Maybe?! I think Jesus Wept took me 4 times more tries than Hellraiser...

I always thought I was better at vert because I learned to climb at Seneca and the NRG... Like I said about Too Many Puppies... I think that one is low-end 12a... same with Infectious... low-end 12b, I think... and that's more vert, right?!

[THB]

Oh, and Triple Sec is 12c... not even close to a test piece 12d (compared to say, 8-Ball)... Jesus Wept (for me) is harder than Triple Sec

[Cocoapuffs1000]

I thought hellraiser got uprated because a hold broke