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Lol... Now we're talking about "gumballs" as opposed to the all the gumbies on Eureka, gang-banging the Gallery or pretending at the Practice Wall?

As long as the top-ropers are unclipping as they go then it is a legit TR send. If they are climbing past pre-unclipped gear then they truly are gumballs.

see even tucky has a set of rules for his posse of followers

Clipping preplaced pro in my opinion is sport climbing. There is nothing traditional about it.

kneebar wrote:Clipping preplaced pro in my opinion is sport climbing. There is nothing traditional about it.

What if it's really bad pre-placed pro?

What is more "trad," a bomber gold camalot in a splitter that you could place blindfolded, or a spinning quarter-inch bolt holding a pre-hung ginsu-aluminum draw?


(Ok, piggie sorry for making fun of you earlier, this fish-in-a-barrel trolling is kind of fun.)

Oh canhead what little you know of me, perhaps as little as I know of you other then me appearing to you as a "fish". Perhaps you my friend have been trolled. But to answer your question with a question. What difference does it make? Part of the tradition again IMO. You may think I would look down on someone clipping pre placed gear which is not the case, just not the way I climb.... why should they care what an old traddie thinks anyway? But then the pigster did ask the question.

camhead wrote: a free lead was seen as a way to improve on a toprope.

This is the part that sticks out to me.

However you decide to climb there is usually a way to do it in a better "style". Let's take Charlie at the Chocolate Factory for example. A bunch of pro's got the FA. All done on pre-placed gear and bolt to boot. Fine. The standard for that route now exist. Leave a bunch of fixed shit on the route for your ascent. Great. Moving on.

Ironically, better "style" can lead to some pretty ugly situations. Not ugly like dangerous per se. Ugly like trying to bolt a sport climb ground up http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xmgq8x ... mbediframe . Or trying to back clean a roof route just so you can "officially" send the route.

I guess the point is, to use the autism parlance, there is a climbing spectrum. There is a whole spectrum of climbing "styles". From ground up, barefoot, no chalk, solo(now you are just showing off Chris Sierzant!!!) all the way to rap bolted, 5.10 Dragon velcro, frank endo chalk, Mike Doyle resting position *, French free.

No matter where you fall on the retard spectrum (not very P.C.) just report it how it is. Nothing is gheyer (P.C.?) than to find out later that "I basically sent it" meant 1 hang. Or "we got the FA" meant that you belayed Andrew (the strong one) on a new route. Own it. I will start.

I "sent" the first half of Windy Corner with 3 cams pre-place after much rehearsal. Good enough for me. Could I "send" it in better style. SURE!! Moving on.

* http://mikedoyle.ca/climbing/coachingdoc_7.shtml#SEC30 check out section 7.2 second to last paragraph.

pigsteak wrote: thx for the ammo cammo....

Applause break....


Comedy Gold. This is why you make the big bucks. You keep us begging for more...Pigsteak?

JR wrote: Mike Doyle resting position *,

* http://mikedoyle.ca/climbing/coachingdoc_7.shtml#SEC30 check out section 7.2 second to last paragraph.

A good tip is to use the rope itself to take the weight off your hands. If it is possible to make a clip above you and downclimb to the rest without too much difficulty then you should do this. Once the rope is clipped above you and you are back in the resting position try and weight the rope a little. The weight of the rope and rope drag going down to your belayer should be able to take some weight off of your arms. As you shift between hands you may need to shift your hips higher every time and then sit back down on the rope. Your belayer will not notice the difference at their end of the rope.



Wow, that is some great stuff there. More subtle than the elbow lock rest I discovered a few years ago. Important part is to not do it when your buddy has the DSLR pointed at you.

Sport Trad or Spelunking
http://www.supertopo.com/tr/The-DEER-Ro ... dium=email