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HF, sorry what I meant was " When was that? pause pause Interesting....." Thanks for clearing that up.

In the opinions of those on this board who regularly climb 12, what differentiates a 12a from an 11d? Just curious... I mean for me it's the fact that I cannot lead 12, but for those who can do both, where do you, personally, draw the line? I realize it probably varies from region to region, so if you want to say specifically for the Red, that's cool.

so your post imply's that you lead 11d. Have you tried ro sham po? can you lead it? what do you think about it's grade?

I wonder which move on the thing merits the 12a rating? The third bolt? The throw at the 5th? The crimp at the anchors? The combination of all 3? Personally, I think it's kind of like Kick Me in the Jimmy at the Motherlode. You are on big and somewhat good holds all the way up, but it is just one powerful move after another on a pretty steep wall. Who knows though?

Mj

I think it is the approach

Merrick, I didn't mean to imply that I lead 11d. I've actually never tried, the hardest I've been on and lead is 11b. I'd like to try Ro Shampo though, so who knows, maybe on the next trip down. I was just wondering what others' opinions were on where and how to draw the 5.12 line.

it's probably all relative yasmeen. i guess from experience, i know about what 5.12 feels like. how pumped i should get and how hard the moves are. likewise you probably know very well the difference of .10 d and .11 a. why do you say you don't lead .12 ? that's crazy. they're not that much different than .11 or .10. maybe just smaller holds.

ro sham poh is a v0, chuffers.

Yasmeen, if you are leading 11b you definitely need to get on some harder 11's & easy 12's. Then you'll find out the difference and will also be working on improving your abilities.

OK, enough of what isn't 12a or whatever. What climb would any of you consider to be a benchmark 12a? Or for Yasmeen, 11d?

Stay the Hand is a great 12a, solid grade. A great 11d would be The Gift at Long Wall.