Brilliant Orange at the Gold Goast
I wish I knew the magic # JR. And dont confuse me with this allah dude. But if I were to put a # on it, it would be 2 years.Unless, the person is working the route and is actually trying to do it then take however long it takes. On the other hand if the person is still going around bolting whatever they see or they take a break from climbing and they are not working the said line at all then the line is open game.
You cant just go around bolting everything in sight(and I do not think Rob or any route developer at the Red is doing this) with the thinking of yeah I will come back to that someday. If thats the case Im gonna take the 100 some odd bolts and hangers I have in the truck, find the steepest newest fad crag and bolt the shit out of it. And dare someone to get on MY lines.
Agree with ya rhunt. let them work it out, Im done.
You cant just go around bolting everything in sight(and I do not think Rob or any route developer at the Red is doing this) with the thinking of yeah I will come back to that someday. If thats the case Im gonna take the 100 some odd bolts and hangers I have in the truck, find the steepest newest fad crag and bolt the shit out of it. And dare someone to get on MY lines.
Agree with ya rhunt. let them work it out, Im done.
Yes but did he redpoint it? There are always abandon projects at the red with red tags on them. I think Allah is just checking the status of this route before he trys to redpoint it.JR wrote:Did you read Allah's first post. He has been on it. He knows it is a project.
"Climbing is the spice, not the meal." ~ Lurkist
allah-
First, I don't even know you, and by your alias this is made more difficult. Second, I don't visit this site very often so don't expect me to reply to your post "by friday" or any other number of days. Thus, don't give out an ultimatum, as you are in no position.
As to the route, it is redtagged. No person has any business climbing the route, nor giving any person a catch on the route. Mistake was made in that someone got on the route BEFORE finding out the status....although the status was made clear because of the red tag and Ray's guide. At least have the balls, and courtesy, to look me up and give me a phone call. I wish I could explain how angry this makes me. Hope you don't see me at the crag.
And as to why the route has not been done yet, I offer no reason because it is none of your concern. It is redtagged, so keep off of it. And this doesn't apply to just my routes, but any other red tagged route out there. Don't even think about it.
A few of us spent a lot of time, money, and energy developing Coalbank. This includes everything from the routes, cleaning up the base, trails, bridges, etc. I never saw any of you out there helping out, nor do I hear of any person out there today making improvements to the overgrown trail, etc. However, these same people want to create guidelines regarding how long a project should be redtagged. Odds are none of you have ever bolted a route, much less developed an entire area. Most off you all sound like a bunch of consumers filled with entitlement.
Rob
First, I don't even know you, and by your alias this is made more difficult. Second, I don't visit this site very often so don't expect me to reply to your post "by friday" or any other number of days. Thus, don't give out an ultimatum, as you are in no position.
As to the route, it is redtagged. No person has any business climbing the route, nor giving any person a catch on the route. Mistake was made in that someone got on the route BEFORE finding out the status....although the status was made clear because of the red tag and Ray's guide. At least have the balls, and courtesy, to look me up and give me a phone call. I wish I could explain how angry this makes me. Hope you don't see me at the crag.
And as to why the route has not been done yet, I offer no reason because it is none of your concern. It is redtagged, so keep off of it. And this doesn't apply to just my routes, but any other red tagged route out there. Don't even think about it.
A few of us spent a lot of time, money, and energy developing Coalbank. This includes everything from the routes, cleaning up the base, trails, bridges, etc. I never saw any of you out there helping out, nor do I hear of any person out there today making improvements to the overgrown trail, etc. However, these same people want to create guidelines regarding how long a project should be redtagged. Odds are none of you have ever bolted a route, much less developed an entire area. Most off you all sound like a bunch of consumers filled with entitlement.
Rob
Rob,
First off, I have no idea who Allah is, but be certain it is not me. I am Matt Tackett, I live here in Lex and can be found very easy. I am not hiding behind any name or alias. And second I have not even been to the area that is being discussed. I posted my opinion on red tagged routes in general, here at the red and everywhere that there is climbing. And like I said in every post today, I do thank you and the others that have put up routes for all of us to climb, without you all we would have nothing. Also I have not made any ultimatums and do not intend to. So if you want to fuss or get on me about somthing I said or posted make sure I said it. Again I have not even been to the area we are discussing. If my comments have rubbed you the wrong way, my bad, but I dont like the concept of red tagged routes. Im not even capable of climbing most of the tagged routes at the Red, but I still have opionions about them. If you want to talk about it further pm me or email me.
Matt
First off, I have no idea who Allah is, but be certain it is not me. I am Matt Tackett, I live here in Lex and can be found very easy. I am not hiding behind any name or alias. And second I have not even been to the area that is being discussed. I posted my opinion on red tagged routes in general, here at the red and everywhere that there is climbing. And like I said in every post today, I do thank you and the others that have put up routes for all of us to climb, without you all we would have nothing. Also I have not made any ultimatums and do not intend to. So if you want to fuss or get on me about somthing I said or posted make sure I said it. Again I have not even been to the area we are discussing. If my comments have rubbed you the wrong way, my bad, but I dont like the concept of red tagged routes. Im not even capable of climbing most of the tagged routes at the Red, but I still have opionions about them. If you want to talk about it further pm me or email me.
Matt
Around here, restrictions are on everything. Most of the routes that go up these days are on private land. Some do go up on forest land, but there is through an application process with the coalition.
As far as idiots bolting a whole wall and keeping it to themself. This
doesn't happen because not that many people bolt routes, and those that do know each other quite well. But in theory, it could happen. Fortunately, I can't think of any idiots that drill. So, I guess were lucky.
As far as idiots bolting a whole wall and keeping it to themself. This
doesn't happen because not that many people bolt routes, and those that do know each other quite well. But in theory, it could happen. Fortunately, I can't think of any idiots that drill. So, I guess were lucky.
tsparks wrote:Well, I'm all for letting the person that bolted a route get the FA, if they do it in a reasonable timeframe, but if they take more than a year or two and someone else wants to give it a try it would be nice if they could. Maybe it's just a matter of asking the equipper for permission to get on it, but it seems like there should be something that can be done.
Here is a question for everyone. Who decides who can put up routes? I'm talking about on land where the "public" is allowed to freely bolt routes, not in any restricted areas. What would stop some idiot from buying a bunch of equipment and just bolting a whole wall and keeping anyone else from getting on it?
Hey Matt. Sorry about that. You got your message out before I was able to resend my edited post. Sorry about the confusion.
I would love to hear some of your comments about red tagged routes. The tags in some sense insure a courtesy to the person that put them up. Tags aren't really needed when the public doesn't know about an area, but after swarms of people start coming in the whole situation changes.
There is A LOT of rock out there. There is enough for everyone to have some. Problem is most don't want to go through the trouble. And believe me, it is a lot of trouble...more than most realize. And it is nothing to blow $40-$50 on a route. As far as far as lugging a 60-80lb pack around...not too much fun. It takes a lot more work to drill routes and establish areas than it does to climb them.
So put simply, allowing someone to do a route before it receives a bunch of traffic is just a nice courtesy.
I would love to hear some of your comments about red tagged routes. The tags in some sense insure a courtesy to the person that put them up. Tags aren't really needed when the public doesn't know about an area, but after swarms of people start coming in the whole situation changes.
There is A LOT of rock out there. There is enough for everyone to have some. Problem is most don't want to go through the trouble. And believe me, it is a lot of trouble...more than most realize. And it is nothing to blow $40-$50 on a route. As far as far as lugging a 60-80lb pack around...not too much fun. It takes a lot more work to drill routes and establish areas than it does to climb them.
So put simply, allowing someone to do a route before it receives a bunch of traffic is just a nice courtesy.
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canadaclimbergirl
- Posts: 742
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:15 pm
I have helped developed climbing areas in New Brunswisk, Canada, worked on trails, done erosion prevention, written proposals for funding, cleaned trad, sport, and mixed lines, worked with other climbers to reach useful conclusions regarding access, worked with local Red Cross to get donations of first Aid stations, spinal boards and other necessary items for remote Rock and Ice climbing areas . I also have my name on some FFA's several local crags.
I agree with Rob 100%. Ethics are Ethics. That is all. Again, like I said before, respect is the bottom line.
I know that if anyone got on one of my lines before I got to lead it, I would be VERY pissed. Bolting takes time and money, cleaning takes even longer then the bolting. Blazing trails to new crags is hard back breaking work. Myself and many others here in NB work hard to put up lines for everyone to enjoy, but for our hard work, we get the privledge of enjoying them first. I would only give climbers and first ascentionist anywhere in the world the same respect.
My two cents worth.
I agree with Rob 100%. Ethics are Ethics. That is all. Again, like I said before, respect is the bottom line.
I know that if anyone got on one of my lines before I got to lead it, I would be VERY pissed. Bolting takes time and money, cleaning takes even longer then the bolting. Blazing trails to new crags is hard back breaking work. Myself and many others here in NB work hard to put up lines for everyone to enjoy, but for our hard work, we get the privledge of enjoying them first. I would only give climbers and first ascentionist anywhere in the world the same respect.
My two cents worth.
Last edited by canadaclimbergirl on Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The phrase "working mother" is redundant. ~Jane Sellman