RRC Archives

DONATE HERE:

http://www.friendsofmuirvalley.org/?page_id=6

...and HERE:

http://rrgcc.org/membership/

Or stop bragging to all of your friends in Denver that "the Red is totally my home crag, bro!"

Rick and Liz,
I think many of us agree that NOW is the time to start considering a long-term succession plan for Muir Valley. For that to occur, I think several things must happen:

1.) The exit strategy for you and Liz must be determined. For example, do you plan on selling the land to FMOV or the RRGCC? If so, what will be the price? $1 or $1 million? When do you want the transition to occur? In a year or two, or a decade or two? Based upon that answer, a strategy and timeline for the transition of the ownership can be developed.

2.) Annual costs must be estimated for the future. Has most of the infrastructure work been done that needs to be done? Can you estimate the costs for maintaining the property? Based upon this answer, a plan and goals can be set for fundraising to ensure the long-term sustainability of Muir Valley.

It will be impossible to succeed in planning for the succession and viability of Muir Valley without a clearly laid out plan, which will largely be determined by your and Liz's vision.

Again, thanks for all you guys do. Though I am far removed and have limited time, I would help in anyway that I can.

Ian

that's all cute and all rick, but at the end of the day it is up to YOU. the only thing that has ever been agreed upon on this site is that the landowner holds the almighty trump card. my favorite climbing area is not open and will not be open any time in the near future so it is in fact not up to ME. seems silly to put the responsibility on US to meet the financial needs of a place that has such ridiculous extravagances like 2 way radios, camera's, massive parking lots, roads being moved, concrete bridges, etc. it's your right to do with your property what you want and i understand people aren't donating enough to meet how you want to run your property, but this argument is played out...it IS NOT going to change. it has been an issue at every climbing area with an optional use fee. YOU know that climbers aren't going to come forward with the cash and YOU keep choosing to add to expenses of your property. there are other options that i admittedly don't know the ins and outs of well enough to argue, but it's silly to keep going through the same motions and expecting a different outcome. to say that muir valley staying open is in anyone's hands but YOURS is bullshit.

Not true Keenan, there is an active group of hard-working volunteers and financial supporters through the Friends of Muir Valley non-profit (http://www.friendsofmuirvalley.org/). The destiny of the area is up to them as well as Liz and Rick, along with groups like the Access Fund and the tens of thousands of annual visitors to Muir.

To put it lightly, the tone of your message is counterproductive and adds little to the conversation except disrespect.

going through the same motions with same rhetoric from rick and liz year in and year out seems counterproductive to me. individual donations will never be what they want them to be. it does seem like they are exploring different routes to get the funding they want (access fund, etc) which is awesome and something i support. however, rick and liz can close muir anytime they want. access to that property is 100% up to them.

if folks feel it's productive to put banners on websites, signs on trails, etc and ignore the reality of the situation which is that enough climbers will NOT rise to the occasion then go for it. if it's disrespectful for me to say this then so be it.

Giving an opinion is appreciated, the manner in which it's given does make a difference though. I also agree it's time to explore different avenues to support the area financially, perhaps a legal consultation on the possible implications of charging a parking fee? A new organization to manage fees from the "Muir Valley Parking Area"? Stop promoting the climbing and start promoting the parking....a world-class parking area in eastern Kentucky, imagine!!!

stix wrote:that's all cute and all rick...to say that muir valley staying open is in anyone's hands but YOURS is bullshit.

Thank you for your viewpoint Keenan. I doubt if your favorite climbing area had 30,000 annual visitors. The enormous number of climbers who come to Muir mandated our "extravagant" expenses. Can you imagine what impact 30,000 climbers peeing and pooping on the land would be like? Restrooms were a necessity. Can you imagine what the outcome might have been for the five critically injured climbers at Muir last year without an emergency road for the EMS vehicle and emergency communications gear? Two almost assuredly would have died. Even more expensive than big parking lots would be the cost of personnel to police and limit the attendance. We've tried "lot closed - please go elsewhere" signs, but climbers then park all over the neighbors' property. Every big expense you noted was necessary due to the huge number of folks who want to climb here.

Rick

I believe that Keenan has a valid point, but maybe it could have been said more tactfully. As history has shown, the problem is the masses are not going to want to reach into their pocket books to support a private owner. However, if there is a succession plan that gives ownership to the climbing community (as in the PMRP), I believe financial resources can be secured. This would include private donations and grants. You could go after corporate sponsorship as well.

All this being said, I have no idea what the Weber's vision for their land is. I am assuming at some point, they want the climbing community to somehow take over the responsibility for the property.

30,000 individual climbers? if you have that many waivers on hand that seems like a pretty good role call for donations.

i'd be curious to know how much Miguel spent on parking and restrooms.

yeah, but ya'll made it that way. what did you think was going to happen when you bolted tons of convenient closely bolted (turns out it doesn't help if they can't keep their brake hand on eh), over graded routes, with tags and signs and cameras to keep the lot safe in the midst of the red and climbing as a whole blowing up. of course they were gonna flock and once they're used to going there they feel it's their right to be there and will park anywhere and do anything to get their little fix. climbers suck. it's no secret. and guess what, they aren't gonna step up and foot the bill. there's a few good one's out there that pick up the slack for the rest (ya'll, dr bob, tacketts, jeff neal, the other dude who finished up FRC that i run into guiding but don't know your name...) but history has proven that individual climbers are useless. you bolted it and, of course, they came now you have to deal with or close it.