Deaths in Red River

Post by **ynot** » Tue Aug 26, 2003 10:03 pm

I tell people, my commute to work is more dangerous than my climbing. I drive Death Hill every weekday,twice. I was hit head on and injured, commuting. Nothing more than a turned ankle on the trail while out climbing. It never fails to shut them up.

Post by **tomdarch** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:13 am

This is all about the 'perception' of risk and has nothing to do with real statistics. As far as I can tell, we really are more at risk in cars than climbing.

My favorite point of comparison is water - people are familiar with water to the point of complacency. Around Chicago, several kids die each year out fishing on slow moving streams with their dads, but without life preservers! Try telling someone that you're taking your kids out fishing, and they'll say "Oh, how nice!" They are ignoring the very real risks of being out on a boat, just as they exaggerate the perceived risks of climbing.

My mom would rather that I not climb. But if I were to take up sailing she would be a bit concerned, but not overly concerned because she understands sailing, so she has a realistic view of the risk. Because the risks and saftey systems in climbing are not obvious or broadly understood in our culture, people fill the vacuum of their ignorance with fear.

That still doesn't explain why we as a culture keep our heads so deeply implanted in the sand about the risks of driving. After the Sept. 11th attacks, I remember hearing a comment from someone who was trying to get home: "Oh, no! I'm not taking a train, I'm renting a car and driving. it's safer ..... right?"

Post by **rhunt** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 2:53 am

"people fill the vacuum of their ignorance with fear"

That's an awesome quote. Can I use it?

Post by **lucamaniac** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:33 am

Geoff, you are far from being a horrible parent and I'm surprised that someone who knows you could honestly say that.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 3:55 am

tomdarch," people fill the vacuum of their ignorance with fear."

That has got to be the most poetic truism I have seen in a while.kudo's

Post by **Wes** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 5:03 am

J.H. wrote:I guess complacency prevails!

Yes it can. And it does. I cannot count the number of shady things I have seen at the crag, and yet, somehow, no one was hurt. I have also been part of a couple rescues, both super serious. The thing that was the worst was the partner that made the mistake and caused someone to nearly die. Think about what that is like to live with. I also visited the young lady who fell from Moonbeam in the hostpital. She was a experenced leader who made an error, and now she will live with that for the rest of her life. Don't think you are above such mistakes, because no one truley is. Don't "be safe", be aware and pay attention.

Wes

Post by **ynot** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 6:31 am

I think a lot of the percieved risk in climbing comes from all the people who died climbing mountains.The general public doesnt seperate cragging from alpine.

Post by **Wicked Tribe** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:03 pm

Well, I've had a similar, but different experience. Many of the people who cried and worried over me nine years ago when I started climbing have now, after the birth of my son asked how long it would be before I was out climbing with him in a pack on my back. And many have also called him a little rock climber.

So I exchanged one set of misconceptions with another. Though I think most of it is just in good humor and people don't really think I'm going to carry him up a climb in a backpack. On the surface it seems that while I've educated my non-climbing family and friends, but I've also built up their ignorance in a way that can only be cured by being climbers themselves and seeing the whole climbing system in its natural environment.

I also don't just assume he's going to be a climber. He may hate it. That would slightly break my heart, but then again, who knows how I'll feel about climbing when he reaches a good age to start. I may not even do it myself anymore. And I feel very strongly against zealously urging kids to participate in things (especially parents' hobbies). It's better to encourage and offer the opportunity, but if the kid doesn't act interested then leave him/her be.

However, at four months old, my son absolutely loves to be outside. He'll just watch the wind blow the trees, he smiles when it blows on him, and he loves the sunlight. That makes my heart glad.

Post by **GWG** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 12:45 pm

I couldn't agree more with you on pushing your kids into things you find interesting. You often hear about people who are reliving their childhood through their children. Pushing them into things that they wish they had done as a child.

In Backpacker magazine, they did an entire article on raising an outdoor child and it sounds as though you are providing the opportunity.

At the Arena on Saturday, there was a couple from Germany who had their 2 young children. After they had climbed a route, they strapped a full body harness on their older son (~8 yo) and allowed him to climb around. They encouraged him to climb as high as he wanted to go and then let him hang around. He'd get back on the wall, climb back and forth, up and down, just doing what he wanted to do. He's being exposed to something that most people would never dream of doing to their child. It was neat to see. We'll probably be reading about him in Climbing magazine in a couple of years by the looks of him.

Post by **Christian** » Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:24 pm

I agree with you guys. My son has had no interest in organized sports. I know a lot of kids and parents have a good experience with soccer, hockey, etc. but it wasn,t for us. We climb together and when he first started to belay me it changed our relationship. It was really amazing to see him grow into this new level of trust and responsibility. This seems to be developing with my 6 year old daughter as well. I refuse to push them into activities they don'tlike except of course :homework and chores.