RRC Archives

LK Day wrote:I think the gyms have a responsibility that they may not be living up to. Is there a word of warning in the gyms to the effect that "What one experiences here does not prepare one for climbing in the outdoor environment. Critical skill sets that are not part of climbing in the gym are required. Climbing without these skill sets is likely to lead to injury and death"? If so, is there any emphasis placed on these warnings? Do the gyms provide access to any training programs for those transitioning to climbing in a natural environment? Just wondering.

Obviously I can't speak for any other gyms, but at Hoosier Heights we try to be as clear as possible about this. I think it is kind of sad that I have to tell people this, but I guess it is a reality. In fact, we used to have an anchor cleaning station set up where people could practice doing so, but we recently decided to take this down so that someone couldn't be taught how to do it by their friend (who may or may not know the safe and correct way). Now the only way that a person can learn or practice anchor cleaning here is to have "official" instruction by a staff member. It was a tough and in many ways symbolic decision, but there were too many people coming in and trying to teach themselves how to clean after watching a video online. I think this is the reality of the current, younger (18-25) new climber.

Was a helmet being worn?

Clevis Hitch wrote:Who hasn't hung themselves out there by being in over there head?

Hate to agree with him but thats kind of how I feel. Larry, no one "back in the day" got themselves in over their head? I find that hard to believe. Im sure it happened less often because there were a fraction of the climbers there are today but people doing stupid things is nothing new.

Yeah, climbers have always made mistakes, me included, and, for sure, there will be more accidents today simply because of the fact that there are so many more climbers present. But the notion that 5.8 to 5.10 is a good place to start when learning to lead trad is based on a phenomenal level of ignorance. The Red is especially hazardous because there is so little quality climbing in the lower grades. Places like Seneca have great routes in the 5.0 to 5.6 range. The vast majority of climbers need to start out leading fun, easy to protect routes at the lower end of 5th class. Not much of that in the Red River Gorge.

well there was this cool trad route on nuts and slings at global but this guy bolted it and now the whole world shows up to "sport it up!". perfectly good waste of a 5.7...

Obviously I can't speak for any other gyms, but at Hoosier Heights we try to be as clear as possible about this. I think it is kind of sad that I have to tell people this, but I guess it is a reality. In fact, we used to have an anchor cleaning station set up where people could practice doing so, but we recently decided to take this down so that someone couldn't be taught how to do it by their friend (who may or may not know the safe and correct way). Now the only way that a person can learn or practice anchor cleaning here is to have "official" instruction by a staff member. It was a tough and in many ways symbolic decision, but there were too many people coming in and trying to teach themselves how to clean after watching a video online. I think this is the reality of the current, younger (18-25) new climber.

And presumably you charge for this as well. It's great that you provide 'professional instruction' for this, but the sad reality, more people are going to opt to learn on some much crappier setup rigged up in a less safe manner, at home, or worse at the crag - away from knowledgeable eyes. Why? Because the vast majority of people that would weigh the cost-benefit analysis of this situation as unfavorable are college students who figure they'll be fine - exactly the demographic you're calling out. Wage earning adults should know better, and have the resources to pay for classes or even guided trips.

Climbers teaching their friends how to do things in the gym is far better - instead of taking it down, you could have policed the station and every time some gumby hopped on and showed their even more gumby friend how to do things you could have stepped in when they made mistakes and potentially saved 2 climbers serious injury. Watching videos online is a great way to learn a great many things, including climbing techniques. Having a local resource where you can practice what you learned online without risking fatal injury and potentially get supervised feedback from more experienced climbers is even better. I doubt the good of the community was as much at the heart of the decision to take it down as profit was...

Uh-oh.

Clevis Hitch wrote:well there was this cool trad route on nuts and slings at global but this guy bolted it and now the whole world shows up to "sport it up!". perfectly good waste of a 5.7...

did the bolter steal the nuts and slings?

If you're talking about Eureka, the FA bolted his own route.

Clevis Hitch wrote:Who hasn't hung themselves out there by being in over there head?

Now you're talking about some govermental body!? You guys keep talking this shit and some politico is going to see a chance to take power and institute policy. You'd better think about what you're saying.

Climbing used to be about the misfits and the cocaine cowboys. Enjoying success in a world that they couldn't get comfortable in.

Now you get these soccer mom types who make sure that everybody gets a trophy and look for someone to sue when shit goes wrong.

The first thing you flat-landers did wrong was to leave Minnisota. You climb in some gym, then come down here and disrespect our rock. (I gota car, lets go race!)Now you're going to spread rumors about the guy who had the balls to climb the rock (on borrowed gear). Then the second fell on a piece,didn't inspect it, just kept climbing like he was at some flat-land gym.His fate was in his own hands!

Fuck you retards, why don't go play in traffic in Minisota!

I agree with everything said here Clevis...... though its Minnesota.

I never understood why the trad guys complain about the bolting of Eureka. As stated above the FA added the bolts. Is it not possible to place gear anymore??