Reason.

[climb2core]

I don't get it? All of the draws were stripped from the load. So what? Isnt it booty anyway?

No, it is all Dario's...

[toad857]

Let's just hope someone's rope doesn't get severed on a shitty aluminum draw on chainsaw.

However you defend or justify it..... nobody wants to see that happen again.

[Syt]

I'm a fairly new climber. I get the idea of no perma draws, but I would like some clarity on another exercise mentioned. Are you saying (by "you" I mean all in agreement with the op's state of mind, as well as the op) that climbing a route that is a grade over my head and hanging a leaver 'biner is considered taboo? I'm not looking or in the position to argue, I'm asking to get an understanding of what the proper "etiquette" may be.

[caribe]

I'm a fairly new climber. I get the idea of no perma draws, but I would like some clarity on another exercise mentioned. Are you saying (by "you" I mean all in agreement with the op's state of mind, as well as the op) that climbing a route that is a grade over my head and hanging a leaver 'biner is considered taboo? I'm not looking or in the position to argue, I'm asking to get an understanding of what the proper "etiquette" may be.

You can do pretty much whatever you want as long as no one is looking and you leave no trace. At a crowded cliff, if you hangdog all day, Christ died in vain for you. This is an unforgivable sin and you are in the proverbial hand basket, hell-bound, or worse, you will be destined for the weekend idiot report.

[climb2core]

Leaver biners are great... Though only use a full spirit draw for safety...

[Syt]

I'm not of the religous nature, if Christ died for me, it was indeed in vain. I know I can do what ever the fuck I want. I want to do the favorable thing. I'm not interested in hangdogging all day, although that's pretty much what I'm best qualified for. Leaving a biner is leaving a trace, so is chalk. I'm specifically asking if leaving a carabiner is regarded as improper etiquette.
Edit: Missed your reply c2c, and am not sure what you mean.

[clif]

Leaver biners are great... Though only use a full spirit draw for safety...

...i thought it was funny c2c

[caribe]

I'm not of the religous nature, if Christ died for me, it was indeed in vain.

We are on the same page in the same not-holy book.

[climb2core]

I'm not of the religous nature, if Christ died for me, it was indeed in vain. I know I can do what ever the fuck I want. I want to do the favorable thing. I'm not interested in hangdogging all day, although that's pretty much what I'm best qualified for. Leaving a biner is leaving a trace, so is chalk. I'm specifically asking if leaving a carabiner is regarded as improper etiquette.
Edit: Missed your reply c2c, and am not sure what you mean.

Sorry, I will be direct...

1.) leaver biners are fine. To truly be safe it best to use 2, on at your high point and one at the bolt below. That said, people commonly use just one anchor point.

2.) By some $2 quick links at the hardware store and use them when you have to bail. The reference I made to a spirit draw is an expensive draw that a noob might leave behind.

3.) No worries about LNT ethics... Either the crew or someone else will come along and happily claim your left biner as booty

4.) hang dogging is the standard at the Red, so no worries there. However if you are in miserably over your head and other people are waiting, try to be somewhat respectful of their time. They may even help you retrieve your gear.


Good luck

[Syt]

Thank you c2c. Sorry my newb ass missed the humor,I typically enjoy that type of exchange.