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We jumped on Possum Lips when it was open, and In the Light, but had to hurry so the girls waiting could give it a good 30 minute send. To be specific they had ropes on Reliquary, Gung Ho, Tissue Tiger, Fuzzy, Stay Left, Moonbeam, Sunshine, and In the Light. Touching the 12 wall was impossible. We did get to climb several other routes, as Military is pretty big, but not what we had intended to do for sure. Regardless, a party of almost 20 people is unacceptable. Hell, I feel bad if I show up with more than 4 in my party, and I'm not even getting paid.

haters..have ye forgotten yer roots?

If they didnt have a permit, then this was obviously unacceptable. However, its a bit pompous to think we have more rights to the crags just because we are in a small party.

In the same regard, I think the guides should at least be cognizant of your desire to climb some of the routes, and at least offer to work you in if you ask. Even though the routes are 'first-come, first-served,' I try to always be a team player and offer people to jump in. especially if they really had their heart set on that climb. I know what its like to wait in line for a shot at a project.

pigsteak wrote:rjackson...you mean 'serious" people, seriously, people (at the crags), or seriously, people, why are you whining when you are part of the problem...it's all in your delivery ya know....

Yeah, that's what I meant!

Guiding is prostituting the essence of climbing. Used to be that tuition was handed down from the experienced to the eager based on a mutual passion for the sport.

aburgoon wrote:Guiding is prostituting the essence of climbing. Used to be that tuition was handed down from the experienced to the eager based on a mutual passion for the sport.

if you are not over 40, you should be.

Yeah, plus, there are no guides who correctly teach the figure four.

bcombs wrote:Yeah, plus, there are no guides who correctly teach the figure four.

Yeah, that's right.

Who gets guides if you are working 12's? Seriously.

bcombs wrote:Maybe we need to just agree on a grade limit for large groups. If it is, for example, under 5.11a it is open for groups. If you are on a rock climbing forum, calling yourself a rock climber, and complaining because someone hogged the 5.10a, you should be ashamed of yourself.

haha damn now to be considered a "real climber" I have to climb above 5.11. Only in the red..