Bolting question

[clif]

clevis, can you shoot me now?

[Clevis Hitch]

on purpose or by accident?

[dustonian]

Glue-ins are a great, if not the best solution for rebolting in the same hole. Assuming you can get the old bolt out, any damage to the hole (i.e. it is no longer smooth and round) will be taken care of by the glue, and in fact you can even bore out the bolt a bit if necessary. But as far as the actual process of putting something new in the hold, I can't see there being any difference between a threaded rod and any other type of glue-in. So, I think we would be back to the original question of the quality difference of a threaded rod and a one-piece glue-in. And my thought on the matter would be to put the use possible gear, even *if* it means paying a bit more.

Totally--with this caveat: if you don't get the sleeve and wedge out of the hole (quite likely if fused with rust), then you could potentially just back the bolt out of the hole with a wrench, then re-fill the hole with threaded rod and glue. This is a major advantage as completely removing all components of the bolt form the hole can be next to impossible sometimes.

However, if your new bolts fit inside the sleeve+wedge once you remove the old bolt, then they would indeed be the perfect solution for rebolting a crag like the Lode. Do they? The Titt bolts are awesome but don't quite fit inside the sleeve unfortunately.

[Clevis Hitch]

yeah, all except for the micro -fractures all around the existing hole. If a bolt is in bad enough shape that you are pulling it, think about what kind of shape the rock immediately surrounding the bolt is like. crumbly and full of fissures. By gluing a bolt in the hole you may stabilise the rock, maybe not. Why take the chance? If you are going to invest the money in new gear, why not invest the time in a new hole.

I love how you guys get on here and act like you actually know what your are doing...when you don't. For a guidance I think you should consult either the construction industry or the manufacturers of gear you are using and ask them what they think of you putting new gear in a old hole. I built houses for years and remodeled many more and I would never have even contemplated doing to somebody's porch swing what you are talking about doing to life-saving gear.

[dustonian]

HIlti RE500-SD is intended for cracked cement and rock. I've been using glue-ins for 5 or 6 years and have a good idea of when they're good or not after having tested several dozen. No, I'm not a structural engineer, but I do research which applications the epoxy is intended for and use it as such.

[heacocis]

Dustin: if I understand what you are saying, then wouldn't you be putting the threaded rod inside the sleeve, which itself is stuck inside the hole? Thus, you would be gluing the threaded rod to the metal sleeve, not the rock? So, then under a great load couldn't the sleeve be pulled out of the hole, therefore taking the threaded rod with it? My understanding is that if the sleeve (or wedge, if it is a wedge bolt) cannot be removed, then one should fill in that role and drill a new hole.

Clevis: As Dustin said, the 500SD is made exactly for porous, cracked, and/or seismic applications. And just because a bolt needs to be removed does not mean the rock is damaged. An example would be a severely rusted bolt.

[toad857]

So, then under a great load couldn't the sleeve be pulled out of the hole, therefore taking the threaded rod with it?

i dont know enough about bolting, but this setup seems more complicated... and climbing always taught me that the simplest setup was the safest. fewer points at which the setup can fail, y'know?

[pigsteak]

I am guessing 90% of the bolts replaced at the Red are done so because of rust, not because of issues with the rock. that eing said, I prefer to drill a new hole, and fill in the old one.

[the lurkist]

This is easiest. When you are proposing replacing an entire crag of 5 pieces on steep stone, using the existing bolts for aiders to equip the replacement glue ins with makes the most sense. True that sometimes it is challenging to find the best spot for the bolt, but this becomes less of an issue if you are using ring glue ins. They can go anywhere, regardless of the contour of the rock behind.

[Rollo]

anyone have a link to the prefered eyebolts and glue to use at the red?

i take it the prefered glue is HIlti RE500-SD?