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Ya, they should at least copy that post and add it to MuirValley.com with a link labeled: "Good Beginner Trips in Muir". That was way too much typing for just a random post in a forum, but I figured other gumbies might be able to use it as a guide as well. If the question ever comes up again just direct them to this topic.

Redpoint - i thought you had a good post until i got to the end.

Redpoint wrote:. O and be sure to always face the gate of the biner in the opposite direction you will be traveling (NOTE: if done wrong, it's also referred to as back clipping by Black Diamond). EXAMPLE: If you are clipping the quickdraw, and plan on climbing up and to the left to your next bolt, the gate of the biner should face right when you make that clip.

that is not what back clipping is. i even looked on BD's web site to see where they said that what you described is "back clipping." it's no where to be found. what is your source?

if you don't know what back clipping is you should go with someone more experience who can 1. show you 2. watch you climb to make sure you're not doing that.

this is a VERY cheezy video that shows back clipping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bbz8Ne_RoY

I know what back clipping is, I just thought there was two different ways to backclip, hence why I said "which is also referred to as".

You are right though, I have no idea where I got that from, I thought it was from my Black Diamond biner instructions, they say not to do it, but they didn't give it a name. The Petzl catalog also has an illustration for "Rope path through a quickdraw", and they didn't give it a specific term either. Well I think it's about time to name it, from what I have seen it's always the gumbies doing it, so lets just call it a "Gumbie Clip", or "Gumbie Clipping" if they have done more than one like that. I have seen gumbies clip every draw incorrectly like that.

Well I edited the post with it's new title.

Redpoint wrote:I know what back clipping is, I just thought there was two different ways to backclip.

Heh. Funny2me.

I had to edit that post and point out that I did say the words "which is also referred to as". I should have said "I know what the traditional term for backcliping is". Well in my defense the whole reason you point the gate away from your direction of travel is to prevent the rope from coming unclipped in a backclipped like fashion. I have tested it, and it is quite easy for the rope to come unclipped like that.

Does it really even matter which way the gate is facing? i think it is best to do it the way you describe, but as far as i know (and i am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong) it isn't dangerous as long as you don't back clip the draw. I admit that i have an easier time clipping with the gate facing the opposite direction of the hand i am clipping with. So if i am clipping with my right hand then i find it easier to clip with the gate facing left. That is my personal preference.

So lets hear it more experienced and wiser ones, does it really make that big of a difference?

if you don't know what back clipping is you should go with someone more experience

I have even seen experienced people gumbie clipping, one guy was teaching his friend how to lead climb and I pointed out that the gates were facing the wronge direction and he didn't even know what I was talking about. No wonder you are supposed to learn how to climb from an expert, and not just one of your "experienced friends". Well at least the guy did warn his friend when he backclipped, but then the guy ended up clipping the rest of my bolts on the dual anchor 5.7 climb at Animal Crackers and I had to wait 15 minutes for them to clean their route and the other half of mine before I could finish my route, and so I think that makes it ok for me to hate gumbies, but I will still constantly point out what they are doing wrong for Webbers sakes.

Does it really even matter which way the gate is facing? i think it is best to do it the way you describe, but as far as i know (and i am sure someone will correct me if i am wrong) it isn't dangerous as long as you don't back clip the draw. I admit that i have an easier time clipping with the gate facing the opposite direction of the hand i am clipping with. So if i am clipping with my right hand then i find it easier to clip with the gate facing left. That is my personal preference.

Yes it matters, I already said that both petzl and black diamond tell you how to place a draw, and I have personally tested(and demonstrated to others) this phenomenon of how the rope can come unclipped like that.

Do you think anyone in this forum is more experienced than Black Diamond or Petzl... this is why reading a lot about how to climb safely might be better than just only learning from one of your "experienced" friends.

I am good at starting controversies on here, and it might make me look like a troll, but o well. I am sure about this one, but feel free to argue away, especially if you didn't even know not to do this. I swear I think a lot of climbers in the red just think you are supposed to clip it the most convenient way, ie: how the hanger is positioned, or in your case not having to turn your wrist 180 degrees, but that doesn't make it the right way.

I hang the draws facing whichever way is convenient for the clipping jug.

If someone gave me shit for the direction the draws were facing I would come down and kick them square in the junk. Just a warning.

Would it matter which way their junk were facing?