Can you.....

[pigsteak]

3. Using a bowline or double bowline (because it unties so easily?)

I love people that tie bowlines. "Well, you see, I tie this knot because it unties really easily!!"
Probably the LAST thing I want my knot to do is untie easily.

yawnnn..not if yer fat like me. I love that knot. but either traddies or gumballs are the only ones who tie figure eights anymore.

[krampus]

JR, Its a style thing that clearly falls into that second category that you mentioned. While standing up serves no real purpose, all the gumballs that watch you do it, go home and try in front of the mirror. They will naturally fail and stair into space from the ground that they have just fallen on and contemplate how much cooler they have to become in order to continue climbing at the red.

[rustyvasectomy]

of course, the response: "well, if you tie the triple bowline with a double backflip backup twist and throw a lime on top its just as safe as a figure eight!"

yeah... but during the time you spent tying your masterpiece, I could have tied my eight, whipped off my project (breakfast burrito) AND untied the stuck figure eight.

[Savage]

I love people that tie bowlines. "Well, you see, I tie this knot because it unties really easily!!"
Probably the LAST thing I want my knot to do is untie easily.

The bowline is PERFECTLY safe if you use an adequate keeper know. i have never had any incident, or near-incident with my bowline. All of my climbing partners use bowlines, and they have never had an issue.

Figure 8s are harder to get undone after a fall and the markers on the rope ends tend to get pulled off. I hate not being able to easy spot the end in the stack!

[Savage]

of course, the response: "well, if you tie the triple bowline with a double backflip backup twist and throw a lime on top its just as safe as a figure eight!"

yeah... but during the time you spent tying your masterpiece, I could have tied my eight, whipped off my project (breakfast burrito) AND untied the stuck figure eight.

false! I use a bowline and half of a double fisherman's knot as the keeper knot. I guarantee I can tie, untie, and retie this before you can tie a figure 8. Done it before, and I'll do it again.

[Savage]

Take a look at this gumby story:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/threa ... _id=605093

What would you have done if put in the same situation?

For those who don't know that climb, the ledge they are standing on is about 150' off the ground and High E is a 5.6 trad line.

On the orignal thread (there is a link to it in the thread you posted), one of ACTUAL party memebers posted what happened. The guy that told the account of what happened got some things wrong.

1. There was no fall (especially not factor 2!) involved by cutting the rope. They built an anchor above her and put her on TR. She only swung into the fall about a foot.
2. While cutting the rope was a bit dumb, they did it because they could not get the leader of Team1 to lower her.
3. when gumbies are doing stupid or potentially unsafe things, it is the DUTY of experienced climbers to stop them. Its a person LIFE that is at risk. The guy should not have heckled the gumbies and guy at the top. He should have told them how to fix what was going on.

[gripster]

this has went from a gay argument to a super gay argument. anyone who uses a bowline is just trying to be "different". i am afraid of tying anything other than a figure 8 myself because it is easy, hard to screw up, and i know it works.

[Savage]

this has went from a gay argument to a super gay argument. anyone who uses a bowline is just trying to be "different". i am afraid of tying anything other than a figure 8 myself because it is easy, hard to screw up, and i know it works.

then call me flamboyant! =) I dont do it to be different, I do it to be efficient. I'm an engineer, I'm all about efficiency! =)

[pigsteak]

this has went from a gay argument to a super gay argument. anyone who uses a bowline is just trying to be "different". i am afraid of tying anything other than a figure 8 myself because it is easy, hard to screw up, and i know it works.

AFRAID....that is your clue that you have no business out there.

plus, you must climb trad, and never fall on your knot. fall a few times, you'll change your mind.

[rustyvasectomy]

people who tie bowlines remind me a lot of the people who ride fixed gear bikes. They will argue to death about how they can stop just as fast with no breaks, how they don't need gears and how much more natural and efficient what they are doing is. And then they hit a tree and die...

Bow line is more dangerous. Fact. Done.