RRC Archives

Didn't our early developers wear those ghey capris? So if someone wears jeans today then are they cheating? I'd say so if knee pads fall into the same category. Jeans are a helluva lot thicker than a half covered capri knee.

SCIN wrote:Not sure a knee pad is enough to take a route down a full letter grade. So what if the FA did it in shorts and you wear pants? Does that apply? This could get ridiculous.

True, that could get ridicoulous. However, I would disagree with you over how easy knee barring makes something. Sometimes a knee pad provides a no hands rest where one could not get one sans. Going hands off in the middle of a route is almost as relaxing as just taking a hang and resting! And at a place like the red, the difference between a one hang and a send can be worlds apart!

SCIN wrote:Didn't our early developers wear those ghey capris? So if someone wears jeans today then are they cheating? I'd say so if knee pads fall into the same category. Jeans are a helluva lot thicker than a half covered capri knee.

just say it scin..you still own capris AND rubber pads....

rustyvasectomy wrote:

SCIN wrote:Not sure a knee pad is enough to take a route down a full letter grade. So what if the FA did it in shorts and you wear pants? Does that apply? This could get ridiculous.

True, that could get ridicoulous. However, I would disagree with you over how easy knee barring makes something. Sometimes a knee pad provides a no hands rest where one could not get one sans. Going hands off in the middle of a route is almost as relaxing as just taking a hang and resting! And at a place like the red, the difference between a one hang and a send can be worlds apart!

How about jeans versus shorts?

i thought grades were based upon the ease of a climb. if kneebars on a route make it easier than the grade is not a reflection of the climb as it now stands. Same for any other method of making a route easier such as new beta, a hold breaking and leaving a bigger hold in its place. sure i understand that those are more a natural approach to a route becoming easier, but a knee bar can make a route easier as well

if the fa and subsequent other climbers did climb X with no kneebar and claimed 13b points cool. if a new climber finds a significant kneebar the community needs to be honest with itself and recognize that this new beta or method lowers the grade. eventually the new grade will become the standard.

sticky rubber shoes: in

sticky rubber kneepads: out, unless youre the FA

Larry (Day)? Didn't you used climb everything in Vietnam-era jungle boots with the soles worn smooth? And lay everything back?

So if I drop knee, wearing my sticky rubber slippers and crimp face holds on Insanity Ceiling does that mean it's really only 5.8?

If it's only 5.8 I could probably go do it now, off the couch. I might need to make a trip back to the red this summer...ooh, wait! Summer, that means I'd need more chalk. I ran out years ago when I realized I didn't need it since I don't climb when its hot anyway.

I need to get my TCUs reslung, they're getting kinda old, just in case I need to dog the hard sections. Oh wait, Larry, did you use TCUs on the FA? I remember you saying you used stoppers. I guess if I use sticky soled shoes, chalk, TCUs, ultralight biners, skinny rope and my belayer is using a gri-gri then Insanity Ceiling is probably only about 5.5 right?

Oh, and I won't forget my kneepads...5.4.

But since the guidebook still lists it as 5.11 I'll call it a 5.11 onsight.

The view on kneepads from Down Under: http://captainsofcrushaustralia.blogspo ... -post.html

There are a couple boulder problems and a couple routes that I tape just one or two fingers for, because they have sharp pockets. Routes like Stain is one example - if you tape your finger, you can rest easier on one of the holds. I tape the two middle fingers of my left hand for the pocket on table of colors. I watched someone tape two fingers to help with a clipping hold on paradise lost. So, new kneebar might make a route easier, but just using a kneepad doesn't lower the grade.

kafish2 wrote: if the fa and subsequent other climbers did climb X with no kneebar and claimed 13b points cool. if a new climber finds a significant kneebar the community needs to be honest with itself and recognize that this new beta or method lowers the grade. eventually the new grade will become the standard.

i agree 99.99% with this. my hesitance lies in the fact that IF YOU CHOOSE to use a kneepad after a route has been "graded" it should not be the catalyst for change of grade. some areas (the red being one) kneepads are not the norm, versus, say rifle where not using one can mean no send. for one person to choose a style over others shouldn't matter to anyone but that person. (i guess if this were the case we would not have this website) for someone to go ïts only 16Q if you use the kneepad" great but if somone does it without (better style) then this doesn't make the route any different. just the person"

and andrew......that was funny. you have been warned.