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I agree with the 50 foot mixed route with 4 bolts being lame, but bolting a crack is the lamest think ever. Maybe, if and only if there is no way of protecting other than bolts! What is this route I found, Dragons Mouth ,when did chimneys become sport climbs. Cracks should be preserved as the natural line!

Meh, cracks are just vert pockets, what makes them so special? I would love to see bolts on synchronicity. Would be the best 10c sport route in the red, no doubt.

And, back to the topic at hand, there are still a bunch of fill in routes, but very few complete crags left to be developed on land that has solid access. Now, if the LAC stuff comes through, there are probably several other walls out there on FS land (including in the southern region) that could take some nice shiny bolts, but the real opportunity is with private land. There are already a lot of unpublished, no access secured, crags out there with a lot of high quantity routes. Once we pay of the PMRP, then we can start looking to acquire some of them. And, don't forget there is more to KY sandstone climbing the what is in this guidebook. There is a ton of potential in Morehead, in southern KY, in Southeastern KY. Hell, the biggest wall I have seen anywhere around is just outside of middlesburro.

Bolting cracks = Lame

I see a day where the amount of maintenance of anchors, trails, and cliff bases outpaces the number of man-hours donated yearly. Many areas are having major erosion problems and people are talking about more development.

pigsteak wrote:and shamis, why save the enjoyment of trad climbing with just those at the upper end? why not leave some 5.8 faces unbolted?

Hardly anybody bolt's 5.8's anyway, I'm not worried about them.

And I'm not in favor of mixed routes. If you need more then 1 or 2 bolts, then you might as well bolt the whole thing.

Wes wrote:There are bolted cracks at the red. And there are bolted face climbs that would go on gear. I don't get offended either way, but think that mixed routes with mostly bolts, but a one or two pieces of gear are the dumbest things ever.

Meh, cracks are just vert pockets, what makes them so special? I would love to see bolts on synchronicity. Would be the best 10c sport route in the red, no doubt.

Agreed. The tried and true "its up to the FA" is the best way. If you don't want the cracks bolted... better go do them on gear first.... or, you can still do them on gear. You don't have to clip the bolts if you don't want.

Did I just say that? And yes... I believe it.

I don't know you anymore.

the guy asks about the future of route deveolpment in the red and the next thing you know cracks are getting bolted!

I have to agree with Wes and OW...what is so special about a crack over a face? if some face climbs are lead as trad, why not some crack climbs as sport? where is the equal love?

Because bolting a whole protectable crack is lame. A protectable face could go either way. Most of them I have done didn't protect that well. Face Farce American Wall and the one up at Purple come to mind. Fadda is an exception.