RRC Archives

Doyle is in Europe so he definitely didn't do it. Besides he is very respectful of ethic and I don't think he would ever do something like that.

From Daniel Woods on his 8a ticklist:

quick trip for the roctoberfest, extreme heat and humidity. sent last try and day of trip. Just got word from joe that the right bolt was smashed in???? Apparently a local thinks there is 2 routes here even though everyone who has repeated has sent using the right method and more logical method. The first ascentionist did do it the left way but skipped the "crux" bolt. There are two boulders one left one right and to go right is easier yet logical. To say there are two routes here makes this route a contrivance in my mind but joe and I are settling it with a new name for the variation "50 words for Drama" sorry about l this mess joe... hope you send the route!!!

The smasher is not a local, but a transplant.

Awesome. The right variation is crap. The red is a great place because there are very few link ups and variations. There is way too much rock to do that shit. The route was sent the original way and then shitty people come and throw random bolts into the wall to skip cruxes. There is no reason to don knee pads and send "the hardest rock climb in the gorge" by skipping the crux and getting no hands rests everywhere. While bashing bolts in it is not the best statement, it is a statement that the red will not stand for the gayness that sport climbers do everywhere else. Joe kinder needs to sack up and get a life.

The gayness about sport climbers is that they think their way is the only way. If better climbing is 5 feet away, then just suck up the fact that the route is easier. You could still do it the hard way, even though it would be idiotic at best, unless its for training purposes.

This kinda shit makes trad climbers look like they have all the right ideas.

gregkerzhner wrote:Awesome. The right variation is crap. The red is a great place because there are very few link ups and variations. There is way too much rock to do that shit. The route was sent the original way and then shitty people come and throw random bolts into the wall to skip cruxes. There is no reason to don knee pads and send "the hardest rock climb in the gorge" by skipping the crux and getting no hands rests everywhere. While bashing bolts in it is not the best statement, it is a statement that the red will not stand for the gayness that sport climbers do everywhere else. Joe kinder needs to sack up and get a life.

the right beta follows the line of least resistance. you can actually still clip the original two bolts with the right beta, however, the two bolts out right make it

a.) easier to work the moves
b.) safer for those using the beta out right


and about the whole kneepad thing...

first of all, 512OW, you are [read with sarcasm] sooo right... because it wasn't 'traddies' who started the whole bolt chopping thing! they are soooooo holy! didn't they think they were the ones with "the right way" based upon their actions? man, i would guess that they started the whole gayness thing then. it's just rock climbing, we're not saving the world here...

it could be countered that people could be putting up bolts 5 feet away from any number of climbs at the red where there are easier sequences and call it "in." the developers didn't b/c they thought the line they bolted was superior in some way, if not just more challenging. THE POINT IS: if you're gonna add bolts to sh!t that's already been done, at least call it easier and not take credit for something that it isn't.

which leads me to...

we should all call it like it is anyway (not that i can climb either variation), but based on a "line of least resistance" it seems obvious that the right variation is more like FORTY WORDS FOR PUMP. seeing as how when Mike Doyle did it, he said his variation (the right variation) was probably not 8c+ and also called it "soft". although every single person who's done it since then has taken the easy -excuse me, i of course mean, right variation - way out, and still called it just as hard.

i personally think it's awesome, although a little over-the-top, that The Hammerman had enough balls to take a stand for what he believes in, based on many accompanying circumstances. not to mention worked the harder, originally bolted and originally climbed sequence... and getting closer than anyone who's posting anything on here.

AND TO CONCLUDE, just put in new bolts and stop the b!tchin'

captain static wrote:Doyle is in Europe so he definitely didn't do it. Besides he is very respectful of ethic and I don't think he would ever do something like that.

so is the coalition going to take a stand on this issue? seems to me that this act is vandalism. no different than breaking into a car in the parking lot.

and greg, if there is so much rock at the RED, then why not you and mr. taylor go find the next futuristic ultra mega rad line, and bolt it as you see fit? if Mike Doyle got the OK from the FA and the original equipper, I find it sort of presumptious that any joe, dick, or harry could come by later and eradicate the work.

I see Joe was going to go rebolt this. Let me know. I'll pay for the hardware, or go rebolt it myself. be careful what you guys ask for. removing/damaging bolts is a very serious path to walk down.

This is unreal...I read this forum from time to time but never write anything on here b/c most of the time there aren't issues I feel strongly about. But this is such selfish bullshit. B/C one person feels their particular way to climb a route is "the" righteous way and no other path can be taken is a ridiculous notion in itself but for that feeling to lead them to vandalize not only someone else's hardware and sweat which they put into it, but the rock itself as well as someone else's project, that shit's not right. Look, As a climber it's all about you and what you put into a route and how difficult it is for you to climb and how the moves make you feel; no one else's opinion should matter. So why does it bother some people if a climber takes an alternate line of pockets or use different beta. Next we are going to have people hammering off rest holds b/c "they" didn't use it during the send. People get so caught up in the numbers game and get bent out of shape b/c so-and-so called it this grade but he used this hold and...blah blah blah...who fucking cares. The bottom line is the FA was asked and permission was granted so that's that.....just let people climb how they want to climb for God's sake. The Red is a special place this time of year and the last thing anyone wants is a bunch of fucking Drama when it's perfect weather for climbing.