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being a larger guy, who has always been strong I can deal with any holds that I can get my big meat hooks on...I am not even afraid to launch a dyno...but those tiny crimps and shallow pockets....not good...

Its funny how when you climb trad for such a long time you actually prefer and search for hand jams or even finger jams to jugs...

as long as it doesn't rain like it did yesterday...

Its funny to me that people think "hand crack = easy". Apparently you all need to try harder hand cracks. If 5.12 is at your limit, can you still get "sweet relief" on a 5.12 handcrack? Doubt it.

512OW wrote:Its funny to me that people think "hand crack = easy". Apparently you all need to try harder hand cracks. If 5.12 is at your limit, can you still get "sweet relief" on a 5.12 handcrack? Doubt it.

I don't just doubt it, mr. crackmaster. I know it. I was actually thinking of a lot of the reds sport climbs that have a horizontal or mail slot that make for a nice comfy hand jam. Some people that never climbed trad don't look for jams. I love it when I find one. Won't be getting on 5.12 crack any time soon.

Lander wrote:

512OW wrote:Its funny to me that people think "hand crack = easy". Apparently you all need to try harder hand cracks. If 5.12 is at your limit, can you still get "sweet relief" on a 5.12 handcrack? Doubt it.

I don't just doubt it, mr. crackmaster. I know it. I was actually thinking of a lot of the reds sport climbs that have a horizontal or mail slot that make for a nice comfy hand jam. Some people that never climbed trad don't look for jams. I love it when I find one. Won't be getting on 5.12 crack any time soon.

that'd be me...why waste good skin off the back of yer hand?

Lander wrote:

512OW wrote:Its funny to me that people think "hand crack = easy". Apparently you all need to try harder hand cracks. If 5.12 is at your limit, can you still get "sweet relief" on a 5.12 handcrack? Doubt it.

I don't just doubt it, mr. crackmaster. I know it. I was actually thinking of a lot of the reds sport climbs that have a horizontal or mail slot that make for a nice comfy hand jam. Some people that never climbed trad don't look for jams. I love it when I find one. Won't be getting on 5.12 crack any time soon.

A nice comfy hand jam slot is equivalent to about what... a 5.4 handcrack? That would hardly equal the crux of anything at the Red. The question was about the crux... and if the crux is a perfect handjam, then you're projecting 5.4. The "crux" handjam on a 5.12 wouldn't be one of those comfy hand jam resting slots...

OK, I see your point. Obviously, the crux hold on a climb, by definition will be 'bad' relative to the route, whether it be a hand jam, crimp, sloper,or whatever. So, for the sake of discussion, all things being equal, I'll take a 'bad' sloper or handcrack over a 'bad' crimp or finger crack. But hey, that's just me.

I chose massive dyno. If the choice had just been "dyno", I'm ok with it. Massive might be too much. I'm a short white guy.

it really depends on the type of climb. i've met a little of each with dread, but for me the slopers seem to really bring out the sketch. never can get a solid enough 'grip' to move on those things.

you gotta love a climb with a huge dyno crux

especially when you're hanging above the water w/ no rope....