Somethin to think about...

Post by **512OW** » Sun May 25, 2008 3:20 pm

Horatio Felacio wrote:do you ever type a really long response, then decide to not post it?

Never.

Post by **the lurkist** » Sun May 25, 2008 3:27 pm

this sport is alive but is close to life support. The next generation (Trotter, and locally, Sandman and others) are trying to do a little resus to get it back to its true path.
The pendulum swung far the the side of sport climbing/bolts/all inclusiveness/everyone should be doing this and every route should be dumbed down to the most mediocre common denominator. The pendulum is swinging back to the roots of climbing- ascend the stone on its terms.
I say if the route goes on gear, pluck the bolts.

Post by **512OW** » Sun May 25, 2008 3:33 pm

Hmm... thats alot of bolts to pull... thousands in the Red alone, I'd guess...

Cuz if you're strong enough, any climb could go on gear. Greg Kerzhner could send Bohica on gear no problem.

It would suck if headpointing took the place of sport climbing, because headpointing is glorified toproping.

Post by **Danny** » Sun May 25, 2008 4:21 pm

If you really want to bolt a crack shove one up your ass.

Post by **captain static** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:10 pm

Ha, I meant to say leading this climb on gear.

Post by **Horatio Felacio** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:36 am

512OW wrote:Hmm... thats alot of bolts to pull... thousands in the Red alone, I'd guess...

Cuz if you're strong enough, any climb could go on gear. Greg Kerzhner could send Bohica on gear no problem.

It would suck if headpointing took the place of sport climbing, because headpointing is glorified toproping.

so was this route sent ground up, or headpointed/rehearsed after checking it out by clipping the bolts?

Post by **512OW** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:45 pm

Horatio Felacio wrote:
512OW wrote:Hmm... thats alot of bolts to pull... thousands in the Red alone, I'd guess...

Cuz if you're strong enough, any climb could go on gear. Greg Kerzhner could send Bohica on gear no problem.

It would suck if headpointing took the place of sport climbing, because headpointing is glorified toproping.
so was this route sent ground up, or headpointed/rehearsed after checking it out by clipping the bolts?

I have no idea about this particular route... I'm just saying that it would suck for headpointing to become the norm...

Post by **Sandman** » Wed May 28, 2008 9:33 pm

I did not rehearse the route on top rope, but i did clip 2 bolts while working it on gear. Because i was run out on gear that i wasnt quite sure about/pumped out and need a little time to figure out some very particular gear placements.
Im not proud of that... but i did clip em, and that is the only reason im not chopping the bolts.

Post by **anticlmber** » Wed May 28, 2008 11:56 pm

"safely" on gear or bolt it. this is climbing remember, safe is not to be used.

that's where the R/X come into play. besides how do you know it will/won't hold until you test it??

Post by **tomdarch** » Thu May 29, 2008 12:05 pm

First off, I didn't say that "all" cracks should be bolted - just a few. (and certainly not the best ones, either) When someone else climbs in a less dangerous "style", it doesn't take anything away from you (unless a big part of why you climb is so that other people will think that you do something "dangerous" and that makes you cool....)

Just as I think that there should be some bolted cracks here and there, I also think that there should be some sketchy-assed, hand drilled on lead fright fests for people who want to do that. If you don't like sketch fests, don't climb them. In the same way, if you don't like bolted cracks, don't climb them. But what is the big issue that so many people think that none should exist?

Sandman wrote:I did not rehearse the route on top rope, but i did clip 2 bolts while working it on gear. Because i was run out on gear that i wasnt quite sure about/pumped out and need a little time to figure out some very particular gear placements.
Im not proud of that... but i did clip em, and that is the only reason im not chopping the bolts.

So what exactly do bolts take away from a trad leader? As long as they don't interfere with the placements, what's the big deal about just not clipping them?

And who here refuses to clip top anchors? I remember some self-puffing "traddie" (at Devil's Lake, WI) talking about how terrible bolts are. blah blah blah. Except, of course, for anchors, which he clipped... "Poor Style"? "Bad Ethics"?

I saw something in a recent Climbing about Sonnie Trotter pulling the bolts from a route that had started as mixed and got more and more bolts but was never sent as a sport route. He got the FA, so he gets to decide that it has no bolts. Fair enough. (although I wonder: If he hadn't sent, would he have replaced all the bolts before he left the area?)

People here are using words like "style" and even the highly loaded word "ethics". No one can really spell out how/why their "style" or "ethics" are actually better, they just leave it to the reader to assume that their version is obviously better than another.

This weekend a friend of mine is going to help a bunch of disabled people jumar up some choss cliffs. They're all going to have a shitload of fun, despite the fact that they're climbing in "poor style". If some bumbly gumby has fun french freeing some bolted 5.5, what does that take away from me? I'm playing the game they way I enjoy it. For some of you, you really enjoy trad leading. As long as you don't do anything stupid that risks loosing access to a climbing area, then it doesn't take anything away from me. Play the game how you want and have fun.

and Ho, for all my long rants, there are plenty that have disappeared into the bits when I didn't post them...