RRC Archives

Toad wrote:

caribe wrote:People in general are good, ...

Let the good people speak when they see someone fucking up at the cliff.

They do.

Toad wrote:Let the good people speak when they see someone fucking up at the cliff.

Sadly, that not usually in the nature of "good people". How many times do people who are not employees of Wal*Mart chastise kids for running wild through the store? Ever told someone parking over the line that they need to do a better job? Followed someone into a parking lot to explain to them that they cut you off on New Circle Road? Told the guy selling 30's down the road that he needs to stop?

Ever tried to teach better safety practices at the cliffs to "climbers"--I use the term loosely--who really needed them?

Before you spew negativity with your next post. Read this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Gorge
and think of the mission of the RRGCC. Think about all the love, sweat and blood that went into climbing in the Red. Think of the fact that the State of KY is proud (although still conflicted) of the notoriety KY gets as an international climbing destination. We are winning. Our collective efforts have made history. The general message in this forum sounds like 'go shoot thyself.' Another thing, if you have to rely on me to bring the sunshine, things have really fucking decayed. You are good people in general, and let's try to be gooder.

well said Art, this is just a head shaker, everyone has a load of fond memories of times at RS, caring for the outdoors is just a given for most folks I know, its' a sad commentary that so few can impact so many, if you think education is expensive look at the cost of ignorance

caribe wrote:

Meadows wrote: You mean you'll see me at the gym that you said would NEVER work in Lexington . . . is that the gym you are referring to Stephanie?

I think you're confusing me with Dave.

I live in Wisconsin, but have visited the Red frequently over the last 6 years. My wife and I fell in love at Roadside (on a weekday in late fall) and this beautiful crag is still one of my favorites anywhere. Although I have visited RS countless times, until reading this post I was completely unaware that this was private land. I read through most of the responses and agree with those who remain optimistic and are trying to come up with creative solutions to the land owner's legitimate concerns. A couple of my own thoughts:

1. Donation box at the crag entrance (suggested donation $5.00 a person). Money may not be the immediate issue that this crag faces, but it could be used to help solve many of the problems the land owner has expressed. Signs that inform visitors that they are visiting private lands with a list of rules would help educate the hordes of visiting climbers. Money could also be used to repair trails and assist with erosion control measures.

I'm sure like many others I would gladly contribute a small donation to assist these great landowners in keeping there properties beautiful and pristine. I always make contributions at Muir and will continue to do so. I'm aware that a large percentage of people will never leave money, but I believe there are enough like minded climbers (locals and non locals) that recognise the importance of access issues and love climbing enough to make a difference.

2. Ban dogs. I have a dog, I love him and like being with him, but he can be destructive and annoying. I leave him at home when I come to the Red.

I wish the land owner and the local climbers luck in trying to iron out this problem. From reading the comments I believe that a solution will come to fruition and it will be an example to future crags. When my son is old enough I want to see his face when he gives his first go on "The return of Chris Snyder" or "Ro", amazing routes that I can't imagine climbers living without.

Can't we just put up a sign in the middle of the trail head that says,

"Hello, welcome to Training Fork Nature Preserve.
This is private property.
YOU being able to climb here is a PRIVILEGE not a right.
Please keep ALL DOGS on leashes.
Pack out EVERYTHING you pack in.
Notify the owners before altering the property in anyway.

Failure to do so will result in the permanent closer of Roadside access.
Thank you and have a good day."

Meadows wrote:

caribe wrote:

Meadows wrote: You mean you'll see me at the gym that you said would NEVER work in Lexington . . . is that the gym you are referring to Stephanie?

I think you're confusing me with Dave.

OMG Steph, I do remember talking with a group about this . . . I probably did some transference to you out of frustration. I beg your pardon for misrepresenting you. I am sorry.

I'd have to agree with the land owners. I'd be upset if I was them. Perma draws at roadside, seriously? If you can't hang a draw or go to the effort of prehanging, don't get on the climb. It is nothing but disrespect for nature and they look like hell in heaven. If you want a gym, go to the gym. Don't bring an area down to your level and basically trash the place. It shouldn't be so easy to climb. More effort does weed out some of the bad eggs. I have noticed the long approaches do weed out the riff raff and at times grants solitude which is rare today. Take a dog on a walk on a trail where they belong instead of leashed to a tree to do damage while you climb. Don't even get me started about babies at the cliff. They could easily be killed by a falling rock - just plain stupid. I have ran across a lot of considerate people but many more with the "me" mentality that don't care about the area they are in. I do believe the majority on here does care though but it’s the bad apples that get remembered. I have picked up and packed out more tp, cigarette butts, cliff bar wrappers, price tags, etc. than I care to recall. And all the tick marks be it blue, white, whatever are just ugly. Again, leave the tick marks for a gym where they belong. It is total disrespect and trashing an area. I have tried to convince people on here otherwise but not many think that there is anything wrong with tick marks. I could go on and on about boom boxes, piss, shit, attitudes, large groups, etc. I understand why areas are being closed. Money won’t fix this problem. You can’t buy your way out of it. You have to change. I’m not perfect either but I do what I can. If I pissed you off then you are part of the problem.

Okay, after years of not saying a whole lot on the issue of dogs for fear of making people mad, let me just say this: If you want to spend time with your dog, take it to a park, or go hiking or boating or, God forbid, ride you bike while holding a leash with one hand and texting with the other. But DON'T BRING YOUR DOGS TO THE CRAG.

Dogs have no place at climbing crags. I've tried for years to resolve the issue in my mind. I used to take my dogs to the crag. But the reality is there is no place for them in a climbing environment. While climbing you can't give them the attention they need so they poop wherever, root in strangers' packs, dig holes, walk all over ropes and gear...and that's a WELL BEHAVED dog.

It's even worse when they fight with other dogs, bark incessantly or act aggressively toward other people.

Be considerate of your dog, your fellow land users and the community in general: LEAVE FIDO AT HOME!

And like I said, if you want to spend quality time with your dog, do it somewhere else. Dogs don't climb rocks. In fact, most dogs seemed bored with climbing.

Don't bother ripping into me. I won't be back to read the responses. I was just curious about the closure because I was going to be visiting for a week and had thought about climbing at Roadside. Thanks to those who got it closed. Thanks a lot...