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you didn't cause any mess at torrent. the kind of 'mess' that you specialize in is the 13-page thread kind.

So I wrote thirteen pages all by myself...If I'm not mistaken you posted your fair share...

Clevis Hitch wrote:So I wrote thirteen pages all by myself...If I'm not mistaken you posted your fair share...

touche

bob wrote: The least expensive and troublesome route of dealing with these issues is to simply close the property to climbing. It has been suggested that I create further signage, greater web presence, etc. to address these issues; however, I feel that anything that I have to “do” is an imposition on me and should not be a part of allowing general access to my property.

In a nutshell the climbing community should realize that the easiest way to deal with access issues for private property owners is to close all access and that the response from every climber should be “WE CAN POLICE OUR OWN” in an effort to prevent closure.

I disagree... this is why we had 13 pages. Dr. Bob made a couple of statements that 1.) Brought up possibility that he may close Torrent 2.) He was not interested in creating more work for him 3.) Asked us to police ourselves.

The community appropriately (mostly) debated how we could police ourselves without creating more work for Dr. Bob in order to avoid the closure of Torrent. The problem was, no matter how much the community wanted to step up in a concerted effort to help and NOT put out Dr. Bob, but he was simply not interested in ANY help (which was later clarified).

I think the disconnect is that most feel you cannot "Police your Own" with out a representative group of the community dedicated to providing a solution.

And this thread will keep being resurrected... it is Jesus.

Except this thread hasn't been dead for even three days.

Toad wrote:Except this thread hasn't been dead for even three days.

and no holes in the hands, M&M eating issues or ability to see Peter's house from atop ....

Clevis, you acted with noble intentions. The rest is my fault.

One would think that if you were staying at the cabins you would go back to use the facilities if you had to go. For anyoneone else just registering and coming in you have to read the rules that clearly state: "Dispose of human waste in accordance with “leave no trace” ethics, e.g. the use of “wag bags” for all fecal material, do not bury or otherwise leave “in situ”, similarly pack out and properly dispose of all litter including (but not limited to) food scraps. Do not urinate inside the drip line of any cliff; likewise do not urinate near or on any trail."

obvious rules...obvious solution...

....And on the Third Day...