PDs at Lode

[Cinnamon]

[quote="Sandman"]All can i say in response is that i am honestly very sad that so many people are against trying to restore some ethics and personal responsibility to climbers at the Red.[/quote]

I think youre full of crap. Youre just trying to bully around a bunch of people who saved up for a vacation so they could come try fun 12+-13- routes on the undertow. Youve probably been climbing there for a long time and youve already sent these, so you dont care if you screw up somebody else's trip.

You guys are jerks.

[kneebar]

Disagree with how it was done. You know me zac, I have no problem with you personally. As far as climbers dogging routes and bailing part way up, yea it's gonna happen, you didn't stop shit you are just making the shit show last longer IMO. The lines are so fucking blurry were you stand, you talk about respect and ethics. Are you serious man, what ethics exactly are you talking about cuss I don't see a hole lot of that being improved with the way this was done.

And respect for who, and what? You say you are okay with "some" climbs having permanent draws, does this mean that they can't be cleaned by someone following it trailing a second line if needed? I mean what is your criteria is there some safety issue I'm missing or is it all about how long it takes to do a pitch. Like I said before, I'm cool with no project draws anywhere for any length of time, I can get my head around that. I'm not angry I'm really not trying to shit all over you, just really confused with the crews thought process on going about it. I'd still like to hang with you and share a beer cuss you have a deep passionate heart. It's just rock climbing.

[aburgoon]

Maybe we can postpone this Saturday night affair and combine it with some RRGCC meeting. That would give people time to create positive solutions to the issues in dispute, and let tempers simmer down so that we can work towards a win-win situation.

I think it is possible that we can create greater respect for the places we climb AND make it safer through dialog.

[dustonian]

It's just rock climbing.

Wisest words yet. If you wanna make a passionate "political" statement, pick a cause truly significant and meaningful...of which there are endless in this day & age. Otherwise, go climbing and have fun doing it. The only real failure is to not enjoy your "carefree" lifestyle--or die/kill yr partner, of course.

[THB]

Maybe we can postpone this Saturday night affair and combine it with some RRGCC meeting. That would give people time to create positive solutions to the issues in dispute, and let tempers simmer down so that we can work towards a win-win situation.

I think it is possible that we can create greater respect for the places we climb AND make it safer through dialog.

sounds like a good idea to me... i feel like the Saturday night affair is just going to turn into a pissing match with a lot of pissed off people at the end of it. the only thing is, i don't know if the rrgcc wants to take the time during their meeting to work through this issue, especially since its not on rrgcc land. i guess that's up to them.

[weber]

...And yes I will continue to strip draws, as much as I possibly can. SIEG HEIL!

Get caught entering onto my property to steal permadraws that I paid for (or were donated) and I'll do my best to put you in jail.

[climb2core]

It's just rock climbing.

Wisest words yet. If you wanna make a passionate "political" statement, pick a cause truly significant and meaningful...of which there are endless in this day & age. Otherwise, go climbing and have fun doing it. The only real failure is to not enjoy your "carefree" lifestyle--or die/kill yr partner, of course.

It is just rock climbing... and no one has died from a ginsu biner, yet. But it is a very realistic possibility and that is precisely why IT DOES MATTER that we discuss fixed gear ethics and what is best practice.

I like Caribe's thought. Let the FA or the property owner determine if their line is eligible for steel PD's.

OR

Determine by steepness...
Very Steep = full equipped
Moderate Steep = Cleaning biners
Exceptions = Dangerous draws to hang determined on case by case basis.

[dustonian]

...And yes I will continue to strip draws, as much as I possibly can. SIEG HEIL!

Get caught entering onto my property to steal permadraws that I paid for (or were donated) and I'll do my best to put you in jail.

Bravo!!

[THB]

however, nothing was EVER discussed on where these should be placed....

Wrong. See my thread called "Perma-Draws!!!!" I never felt like a concensus was reached through that thread, so I've only placed about 10% of the perma-draws that I bought. But back when we purchased the perma-draws, I was trying to get a concensus for which routes needed to be equipped.

I wish people would think more before they post comments about me on the internet, "typical sport climber" if this anonymous person knew the level and severity of traditional routes ive done in this gorge and all over the country, then it would take a truck to get their foot out of their mouth?

I like the spray!

[weber]

I used to think the best oxymoron was "military intelligence."

Now I'm convinced it is "climbers' ethics."