RRC Archives

Yeah...we know this access shit is for real.

ReachHigh wrote:we have now taken this 12 pages, are we anywhere?

why yes we are:
it has been determined that it is always the "other" climbers that cause problems, and never me.
it has been determined that we as climbers ignore issues until someone hits us over the head, and then we complain but go to another crag and spread the same virus.

Toad wrote:Yeah...we know this access shit is for real.

pigsteak wrote:
Torrent wasn't enough.

pigsteak wrote:
why yes we are:
it has been determined that it is always the "other" climbers that cause problems, and never me.
it has been determined that we as climbers ignore issues until someone hits us over the head, and then we complain but go to another crag and spread the same virus.

just checking,

whats been discussed.
Overuse, unsupervised dogs, illegal route development and fixed hardware got road side closed.

Rock climbing has exploded and the land has paid the price.

KY statutes don't allow a land owner to charge for climbing or anything that would effectively do the same.

policing and limiting access such as torrent creates a lot of work for the land owner.

The Weber's, Bob, Grant, John, have done a lot for us as land owners.

Climbers like to talk.

Andrew wrote:

Toad wrote:Do you think that if people pay a fee that they will feel even more entitled? Fuck bro, I paid my two bits. Rover is coming with and I'm gonna shit where I please. Dude.

yep

It could have the opposite effect though and give someone a voice who normally wouldn't use it. If someone is paying for parking and they know that the money is going towards establishing / maintaining access to this area and creating access for other future areas, they are now invested. They would be more willing to speak up to someone who is clearly trying to maneuver around the rules and explain the value of the rules and the tiny bit of money being asked for. This is all based on the idea that the fee is being clearly marked as what it is for and the job of educating the payees is done.

I've heard over and over that folks who visit the Red only one or two weekends a month rarely donate to the RRGCC. This is just forcing the issue. If as a side effect we reduce numbers & increase awareness all while getting a few drops of blood from a turnip, so be it.

Porkchop is right. He is the problem... bolting all those great climbs Aside from that, I think we can determine this:

1.) Private land owners will make their own rules to play by. Unless the ASK for our help and input, it is a waste of time to try to be part of the solution. How many pages did we spend on Torrent recently?

2.) Private land owners like Roadside and Torrent are glimpse into our future to viability and sustainability problems that will affect all crags with the current growth trend. My recommendation would to be solicit for qualified members to make up committee to assess Environment Impact at the crags and then develop and implement a Sustainability Plan. The assessment and plan would be done by a small group of qualified members, while the implementation could involve all those who want to volunteer. Maybe go to UK and see if you can get the conservationist involved as part of a pilot study. Hell, try to get grant money for the study and pilot program to serve as a model for similar issues occurring around the country.

We need to start a new thread... dedicated to soliciting for qualified experts to form a committee. One thing I have learned over the years... if you want to do a job right, you have to have the right tool. I would guess that most of us on the board do not have the right skill set to understand the environmental impact of climbing or contribute meaningfully to the development of a sustainability plan. Most of us, however, can pick up rocks, make trails, pass out fliers, spread the word, and in general carry out the mission.

pigsteak wrote:it has been determined that we as climbers ignore issues until someone hits us over the head, and then we complain but go to another crag and spread the same virus.

Climbers busted grapes at Roadside trail days recently. I just don't think this forum has been very fair to Mike Driskell for one, who organized the trail day and to the volunteers who accomplished a shit ton of work at RS.

People didn't know permas were not permitted. So they will be removed.
There was a miscommunication about route development. Hopefully that gets cleared up.
There were too many people doing stuff that was just too odd, so access will can be controlled somehow. Perhaps more signage is needed at the entrance.
Using Roadside to Lionize the community is not in climbing's best interest. Hopefully problems can be identified and solved and we can all go on enjoying climbing. Roadside is an example of a crag that many people love and care for and an example of smart land use. I hope a deal can be struck between the owners and the users to keep it open.

caribe wrote: Climbers busted grapes at Roadside trail days recently. I just don't think this forum has been very fair to Mike Driskell for one, who organized the trail day and to the volunteers who accomplished a shit ton of work at RS.

the new trail is a million times better then the old one.

The problem, of course, is people. We live in a culture where folks throw litter on the highway, despite a potential fine. Where someone has to clean up the theater before the next showing, because of the mess. The list of these kinds of things is pretty big. Climbers are just a subset of the general population. Lots of the posters here are the very same people (including me) who have climbed illegally on other folk's property over the years. I guess, with time, sometimes there comes wisdom. One of my friends who is a high school teacher taught me something: Scolding only makes the ones who are good feel bad about themselves, and the ones who need it could care less.

There is too much scolding in these threads.

Grant & John...thanks for letting me use your land for so long with no obtrusive conditions. Sorry it's come to this.

This thread is way to negative about people in general. People in general are good, but too much of a good thing can definitely be a bad thing. Let's put this into perspective.

It was people who wanted to put the whole damn thing under water in mid 50's. It was other people who stopped them. If it were not for the other people we would not be discussing Roadside or Torrent or Muir as climbing venues. We would be talking about fishing holes.

"This bunch of damned outsiders who came in here and stopped a dam we've been trying to get since 1953, all for a worthless hollow that is not worth saving. This dam thing is just a damn shame. The mood of Powell County is mighty angry."
- - Red River Valley Flood Control Association President Dwight L. Pendleton

"You only win a few of these battles. The tide is running very strong against the little areas of wilderness we have left. You must be willful if there are to be any alcoves of solitude left."
- - Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas

I like the sound of Nit's post. If RS has indeed breathed its last as a climbing venue John and Grant, thank you so much for the rain days when LITERALLY EVERYTHING except RS was soaked.

caribe wrote:People in general are good, ...

Let the good people speak when they see someone fucking up at the cliff.