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Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:48 pm
by clif
last i checked the Green Party was not yet on the ballot in Kentucky
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:54 pm
by dustonian
no surprise there
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:55 pm
by climb2core
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:19 pm
by clif
between this:
dustonian wrote:I disagree...... Blockage of the American Jobs Act as well as other reforms because of partisan (ie. teabagger) politics in the House is the primary reason for this...... Mitch McConnell and other congressional "leaders" have even admitted that their primary agenda for the last 2 years has been ensuring Obama's policies did not succeed in order to discourage his re-election. In other words, self-described obstructionism has been their primary objective since 2010, not improving the economy, not helping Americans get back to work, not reforming the corrupt banking system, not doing much of anything in fact except blocking our emergence from the ditch W and his buddies dug. If anything it is impressive how much Obama has achieved in light of this cynical and self-destructive strategy.
and this:
dustonian wrote:Andrew wrote:vertical1 wrote:@Andrew....I tried to keep it simple because they are simple concepts. If you want me to elaborate on an item or items, let me know.
You can't be serious. The housing market is not simple, government spending is not simple, and war is not simple. They are highly complex systems that are effected by culture, time, geography, the freaking weather, etc. The american public loves to over simplify highly complex issues so that they can fit the solutions into tiny little, digestible boxes that do little to solve problems.
No joke, we are talking about some of the most complex multivariate regressions ever devised... hundreds if not thousands of significant variables. Calling these matters "simple" just makes disgruntled citizens feel much smarter than those dad-gern "stupid politicians"... but it's always irresistible to lay blame on one person or a small group of people.
i think the frustration with Obama was highlighted by Bill Clinton. Obama, like Clinton, faced opposition but is/was able to articulate and mobilize against the nonsense.
not to say that Obama doesn't have a different role to play in a broader context, but he hasn't made very forceful arguments nor fought for a principle.
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:36 pm
by dustonian
Spending all of your political capital by finally succeeding in enacting healthcare reform and cost-control legislation after over 40 years of failure is fighting for a principle. Although it may not be popular at this time with everyone in this country, these reforms were seriously long overdue and several administrations had tried and failed over the years to do something about this very dire American crisis. We are seriously perhaps the only "developed" nation in the world where ordinary citizens are afraid to seek medical treatment for health problems because of fear of the cost. Something is seriously wrong about that, and it was way past time for someone to try and change it.
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:42 pm
by clif
yeah, well, my experience with health insurance would not argue for individual mandates. fight for transparency, a lot of this stuff takes care of itself; it appears non-partisan and creates space for facts/the general enlightenment. i'll be surprised if the healthcare bill helps anyone but hospital and insurance companies, but i hope i'm wrong. btw, can generic drugs be imported from canada, cause you might add big pharma to the list of beneficiaries?
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:51 pm
by dustonian
There are already over 3 million more insured Americans under age 26. In the years to come, millions more will gain access to health insurance that were previously denied because of pre-existing conditions. There are no longer going to be ceiling limits to coverage for individuals with chronic/lifelong conditions. Can you seriously state the law is not going to help all of those people?
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:58 pm
by clif
YES. i had full health insurance with a 2 million dollar lifetime limit cause i knew if i fucked up climbing it was going to cost me. i now have 75k in unpaid bills cause the insurance tells me it the various cost exceed their 'reasonable, usual, and customary' fees (how the UCR is determined is of course proprietary and not available for scrutiny)
this was done at UK, not some fly by night institution. i received excellent care and the UK hospitals (and surrounding areas) and i want them to have their money.
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:01 am
by dustonian
What is your point? Your story (sadly a common one) is precisely the reason that reform was necessary with legislation like the ACA -- to regulate insurance companies and keep them from screwing people over. In your situation, I would recommend fighting with the insurance provider hand over fist, possibly even taking it to litigation. They are in the business of denying coverage to their customers. This is exactly why they need to be regulated.
Re: so.... anyone voting for Mit Romney?
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:05 am
by clif
yeah, ok, i'm in debt 75k, which you say is common, and i'm supposed to hire a lawyer. meanwhile, the government has declared that i can be 'taxed' (to use john roberts formulation) if i don't buy health insurance. are you still asking what my point is?