Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 3:59 pm
thank you sprag....hope to hook up saturday night....you owe me pie 
Page 17 of 19
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:25 pm
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:32 pm
I hate to be the bee in everyones bonnet today....
But...Although we are all concerned about enviromental impact, and we all take part in some sort of remediation, be it trail maintenence, picking garbage on a trail, or digging a pit to go potty,.....NONE of us should be shitting on anyone else for anything of that kind.....i don't care who you are...or who you think you are...
We ALL drive vehicles or have been in one, we all shop at Walmart, REI, buy gear from Prana, BD, TNF, and write on paper from clear cut trees in some old growth forest out west....
so......please.......give me a break on the Environmental impact preaching. We've all got a lot of work to do to lessen the size of our Environmental footprint. Me included. I drive more than I walk or bike, I shop at the big stores, I even bolt lines. However.....I also help fix trail erosion, pack out my waste, and help educate youth on the issues. Lets do what we can, without trying to make ourselves look or feel better by shitting on others.
cheers.
But...Although we are all concerned about enviromental impact, and we all take part in some sort of remediation, be it trail maintenence, picking garbage on a trail, or digging a pit to go potty,.....NONE of us should be shitting on anyone else for anything of that kind.....i don't care who you are...or who you think you are...
We ALL drive vehicles or have been in one, we all shop at Walmart, REI, buy gear from Prana, BD, TNF, and write on paper from clear cut trees in some old growth forest out west....
so......please.......give me a break on the Environmental impact preaching. We've all got a lot of work to do to lessen the size of our Environmental footprint. Me included. I drive more than I walk or bike, I shop at the big stores, I even bolt lines. However.....I also help fix trail erosion, pack out my waste, and help educate youth on the issues. Lets do what we can, without trying to make ourselves look or feel better by shitting on others.
cheers.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:37 pm
CCG:Oh yeah!
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 4:54 pm
I (for one) have broken more laws and regulations than most of climbers combined... however, this is a sensitive time that we are facing, and it is not about picking on a single individual as I and others have mentioned above. It's merely about doing the responsible thing and staying off the property for the time being.
Because in the end, the signs are there - no matter in what fashion they have been put up. The fact that they are there and want people (cars) to stay out. That is reason enough for us to comply.
Having said that, the issue is being currently looked at by the Coalition - so, back to square one: Will everyone please relax a little and stop speculating?
Because in the end, the signs are there - no matter in what fashion they have been put up. The fact that they are there and want people (cars) to stay out. That is reason enough for us to comply.
Having said that, the issue is being currently looked at by the Coalition - so, back to square one: Will everyone please relax a little and stop speculating?
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 5:55 pm
What! no frenzy and now no speculating???!!! Okay, if you insist.
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:03 pm
Two Radical Solutions - A Modest Proposal:
1. Use piles of burning cash to cut the Gordian Knot:
The Murray Property is only going to grow in popularity, and parking conflicts with the oil company will inevitably grow also. Has anyone come up with a market value of the oil rights on the Murray Property? One solution to the issue of conflict with the oil company would be to simply buy them out. Are the oil rights extremely valuable, or would such a buy-out be possible?
2. Drill Frenzy
I've been realizing that a large part of the problems that revolve around climbing is driven by scarcity (and sometimes perceived scarcity). People mob crags and trample large areas of vegitation, stop out multiple trails, overcrowd parking, etc. because there aren't other equivalent areas for them to go. People talk about how much more rock there is out there, which is great, but it needs to be developed and published so that the crowds can be dispersed. It's totally counterintuitive, but reducing impact is a great reason for the FS to approve lots of routes/crags for development - spread out the climbers and each area will suffer far less impact. Imagine if we were all spread out over three or four times the number of current crags (I'm making up quantities here). How much less worn would the paths be? How many fewer parking conflicts would there be? How much less trampled would the bases of crags be?
1. Use piles of burning cash to cut the Gordian Knot:
The Murray Property is only going to grow in popularity, and parking conflicts with the oil company will inevitably grow also. Has anyone come up with a market value of the oil rights on the Murray Property? One solution to the issue of conflict with the oil company would be to simply buy them out. Are the oil rights extremely valuable, or would such a buy-out be possible?
2. Drill Frenzy
I've been realizing that a large part of the problems that revolve around climbing is driven by scarcity (and sometimes perceived scarcity). People mob crags and trample large areas of vegitation, stop out multiple trails, overcrowd parking, etc. because there aren't other equivalent areas for them to go. People talk about how much more rock there is out there, which is great, but it needs to be developed and published so that the crowds can be dispersed. It's totally counterintuitive, but reducing impact is a great reason for the FS to approve lots of routes/crags for development - spread out the climbers and each area will suffer far less impact. Imagine if we were all spread out over three or four times the number of current crags (I'm making up quantities here). How much less worn would the paths be? How many fewer parking conflicts would there be? How much less trampled would the bases of crags be?
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:06 pm
I promise to not go to the Southern Region without prior authorization by/of/for 
at least three members of this here forum. Does that help?
at least three members of this here forum. Does that help?Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:47 pm
Me too and if I do....Sprag and CCG can spank me 8)Christian wrote:I promise to not go to the Southern Region without prior authorization by/of/for
Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2003 6:52 pm
Wait a minute I promised first. CCG and Sprag spank me if I don't go.