The crowds are not going away... So what do we do?

[Pumpkin]

Mikey- I'd point out that there are climbers (dave h., adam t., mike d.) climbing the 14+'s at the red with significantly less media exposure ergo less impact. It is possible (hard to believe i know).

I think the problem here is the way the pro climbers get paid. The climbers that are climbing hard and not receiving as much media attention are not actively seeking financial support from rock climbing companies. The climbers who bring in the most media are the ones trying to make a living out of climbing rocks. It seems stupid to me that this is a sport where people can bolt a line, most likely grade it harder than it is (not that I would know for a FACT), and then get a lot of media attention for it. Maybe instead of focusing on the people who elicit a lot of media attention you should try to change the system that is pro-climbing.

[Andrew]

visiting climbers bolting at the red- It has always happened and has mostly been to the benefit of the RRG. BUT, bolting link-up's (absolute zero at drive by), manufacturing routes (piledriver at shady grove), bolting new sequences on existing routes (50 words for pump) does, in my opinion, detract from the red. It sets a low standard for new development at the red just as permanently fixed draws sets a low standard for personal responsibility among climbers at the red.

I think this proves that visiting climbers do a better job of bolting than "locals".

Also, I think some of your facts may not be very factual.

[kneebar]

Perhaps instead of a media shut down we could use it to our advantage. Write letters to the mags asking for a blanket article on the affects of overcrowding at the red, ask for there help. Get petzl, black diamond on board. Just a suggestion, I have no idea how to implement that. Not a "don't write about us anymore", that's crazy and never going to happen.

I have no problem with the crowds. The impact, jerk-knee reations, poor manners and respect for each other is the problem with the individuals. Outside of that it is parking and access.

Ken

[caribe]

Personally I feel more comfortable with my gun.

Wild wild east ♪♫♫♫♪ ♫♪♪♫ wild wild east ♪♫♫♫♪ ♫♪♪♫ Kool Moe Dee is a member of the Krew.

[Andrew]

Perhaps instead of a media shut down we could use it to our advantage. Write letters to the mags asking for a blanket article on the affects of overcrowding at the red, ask for there help. Get petzl, black diamond on board. Just a suggestion, I have no idea how to implement that. Not a "don't write about us anymore", that's crazy and never going to happen.

I have no problem with the crowds. The impact, jerk-knee reations, poor manners and respect for each other is the problem with the individuals. Outside of that it is parking and access.

Ken

I just want everyone to see this intelligent man's post again.

[caribe]

Perhaps instead of a media shut down we could use it to our advantage. Write letters to the mags asking for a blanket article on the affects of overcrowding at the red edit replace Motherlode.

Seriously, all the fur and feathers in air started at the Motherlode during peak season; let's keep it in perspective. If the Krew had a Motherlode to themselves, would we be discussing the issue at this level?

[ReachHigh]

it wouldn't be THE mother load, its popularity and notoriety will always make it the place to air these issues out.

[tutugirl]

I am so thankful, every summer when I visit Rifle, CO the locals don't make me feel like an unwanted visitor. The place is small and crowded but everyone is so sweet and wait their turn patiently encouraging each other to send their project...

[climb2core]

So you guys had guns, and were clearly not on a stake out... How much alcohol did you consume as well? Cause that would just complete the picture. Stupid, drunk, self made vigilantes carrying guns in the middle of the night to remove fixed gear. Well, I shouldn't speak about things I don't know. You may have been sober, but I doubt it.

[kneebar]

Perhaps instead of a media shut down we could use it to our advantage. Write letters to the mags asking for a blanket article on the affects of overcrowding at the red edit replace Motherlode.

Seriously, all the fur and feathers in air started at the Motherlode during peak season; let's keep it in perspective. If the Krew had a Motherlode to themselves, would we be discussing the issue at this level?

Yep, I'll go along with that for the most part Art. Areas like the lode definitely attract the majority of the press and discussion, other areas like Muir, left flank, military, and of course roadside (in the past) have huge crowds. Overcrowding was a poor choice of words for sure. Many areas get hammered with love of the sport. I still believe the mags could get the word out on a grand scale, if it would only touch a small portion of the subscribers it would be worth it. I'm not opposed to mag articles highlighting cool places in the least other then for selfish reasoning. A lot of climbing areas have had the masses alerted to its beauty, you can't just put the lid back on.

I climb at Indian creek ut a good bit ...month or more at a time early on, lately not nearly as much because of the amount of climbers and I have it about climbed out for my ability. When I started climbing there 5 cars in the supercrack parking area was a lot on the weekends and during the week you would seldom run into many people at all most you knew or had seen before. It had a tiny little shitty guidebook, free camping on BLM, no hassle. Then the article in climbing came out, a sweet full color guidebook was published, talk of closeures, permanent pit toilets were installed for the masses along with a huge paved parking lot. Tons more people, dogs and cars, camping is regulated to a point of finding a camping spot is tuff legally during peak season. Now it is a really different place socially, and visually but the cracks are still the best concentrated single pitch crack climbing in the us. I just had to adjust the time of year to go in the of season. The red has many of the same problems.

Personally I am happy new climbers are getting out to the sport. If I didn't I wouldn't volunteer guide for uclimb and rocktoberfest.