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oh, JH..don't get me started on that one..."nothing more than aesthetics"

you are out of your freaking mind if you think that is the case. so bolts are ONLY aesthetics, new trails are ONLY aesthetics, rutted roads are ONLY aesthetics, overcrowding is ONLY aesthetics...it all is environmental impact, and hurts the cause of securing access. If you can't understand that, go join a tennis club.

I have absolutely zero "axe to grind" with you. I truly believe you mean well, and are a viable part of the community of climbers at the Red. Hopefully we can meet this weekend, and share a beer.

Bullshit

pigsteak wrote:I thought it quite hypocritical to have talk of lynching the current bad boy of the southern region, without some comment on what was done to the prior bad boy of the southern region (jh).

I believe that the prior "bad Boy" of the southern region was.........You know, the one who bolted the Hominy Hole. All I did was paint some trees to mark crags.very low impact and non-permanent.(as compared to drilling,bolting and driving.)

pigsteak wrote:perhaps that is my point. JH was "schooled" in the error of painting trees.

Not by you

pigsteak wrote:BTW, here's your "beta" JH (Darkside, maybe 12a, poorly bolted (wrong size))

It's at least a 12b. And just what do you mean by wrong size bolts???Could it be that you don't know what you are talking about?It's not at the darkside either.(have you ever seen it?)How many bolts are on it?
I used 4" X1/2" Rawls 5-piece power bolts. I was trained on rock bolting by Greg Houston. Do you know him? Look in the Obed guide-book.
The bolts, save for the first one, are just over body length apart. The first bolt is at about 19' off the ground.I did this to make it to where you had to stick clip the first bolt.It's a V-4 boulder problem to the first clipping stance.

ok folks..maybe we need a vote here..all who agree with JH that spray painting trees in private land with bright orange paint is considered, in his own words , "low impact"..raise your hand.

dude, I am just giving you shit..relax a bit..I have never seen your route, don't know the name of it, just knew it was at arena or darkside, and had heard the first bolt was "up there".

will be at the lode on saturday if you want to climb...let me know.

O.K. so we let things cool down a bit,I mean Fuck, it's Friday. Time to get the climb thing on!
I've taken so much shit about bolting "dirty Sasnchez" It's unbelievable. When I bolted it I didn't think it would be that big of a deal? Lot's of people,Mostly other bolters.Have given me a ration of shit like you would not believe. Now some of them were concerned that I was doing it right.Others were mad at me because bolting was their claim to fame.I was interfering with their ego or something.WTF
The only reason that I bolted what I did was me and my friends were staying at the teahouse during the winter. Every morning we would get up and look at this fantastic arete. We looked for ways to get on top. I had acess to a hammer drill so I decided to bolt it.I asked some friends on how to bolt then got with Greg. He walked me through the steps for Rock drilling and voila.
As for bolting any more routes.I've got a couple in mind.

So what's the big deal with bolting over your head anyway?

In my opinion it is alot lower impact than nailing "No Tresspassing" signs into trees -which it seems like the majority has agreed to respect. Lets give J.H. a break and stop using him as our scape goat. It has nothing to do with the conflict at hand and nothing to do with why this thread was started.

again, just trying to give you shit....

I guess there would need to be a limit as to how far above our head we bolt. goes back to the whole "how long is reasonable to redtag a project"..if 5.10 climbers are bolting 5.13's and then tagging them, that seems to be a bit askew (my opinion of course)

anyway, to clarify for the rest of us, is the Lode part of the current "no parking " issue? anyone know?

pigsteak wrote:ok folks..maybe we need a vote here..all who agree with JH that spray painting trees in private land with bright orange paint is considered, in his own words , "low impact"..raise your hand.

Low impact is not based on opinion.Its based on enviromental concerns. The chemicals that are in the paint that I used are biodegradeable. In a few short years the paint will be gone.Totally.
Now.when you drive on a dirt road.That road will errode.Material(dirt)will be washed away.It will never return.
When you drill a hole for a bolt.That rock is PERMANENTLY SCARRED it will never return to its natural state.
If you want to debate aesthetics then lets debate aesthetics.If you wantto debate true enviro-impact then lets stick to that subject and go over the facts,not opinion,supposition or postulation

I didn't red tag it! It was open.

The Lode is not part of the "no parking" issue unless the Oil companies have posted there. Remember, though it is on a separate piece of property, the issue isn't with the landowners, it's with the oil companies. Thanks for checking about that.