PDs at Lode

[Pumpkin]

I think that as a climbing community we should not condone brash actions like this and allow a few disgruntled climbers to speak for everyone. I fully understand the too crowded, too much poop, to many hangdogs arguments, and I get frustrated when I come across them at crags, but just like we learned in kindergarten life doesn't always go your way.
I personally would like some more description on what the CREW thinks the new ethics should be. Removing perma draws won't reduce the crowds, or the amount of time people spend on a route. It will just make people spend more time stick clipping their way up a route because now there is no draw to grab to get through the crux.
I also hope the crew doesn't eschew their own ethics when they want to climb on something. One suggestion was to keep on moving if the crag you want to climb at is too crowded. Does this apply to the crew too? Are they the first ones at the crag so they can make sure they get on their proj before the crag gets too crowded or are they more of a roll out of bed at 11, roll up to a crowded crag, and throw a bitchfit because someone is hangdogging their warm up? Another gripe was about poop. If you want to reduce human feces at crags why not start a donation for wag bags and a trashcan to put at the base of the trail with a sign that says "if you poop at the crag the crew will kick your ass".
Like I said before...I agree with the problem, just not the solution.

[chosen1]

I'm saddened by the state of the RED and it's decline in the two years I've been climbing here. In MY opinion the Gorge is at capacity, it can't handle many more climbers

So, things started getting lousy once you arrived? Sounds like the solution is for you to leave.

It's at capacity...but there's juuuussst enough room for him.

[dustonian]

There are crags around the world with fixed draws. Are we going to strip 95% of Rifle, plus Jailhouse, Glory Hole, Colosseum, Waimea Wall, Pipe Dream, Clark Mountain, La Chonta, and countless limestone crags in Spain, France, Croatia, Turkey, Thailand, and Slovenia now too? What about the Dark Side, Drive By, Bob Marley, and Purgatory? Come to think of it Golden Ticket and Pure Imagination are not "that steep" either. Let's also get in touch with Rick Weber and tell him his PDs have to go for "ethical" reasons.

I personally prefer trad climbing and could give a rat's ass really about permadraws, but from a rigging standpoint the inevitability of sharp aluminum on popular steep routes necessitates a safer solution. Also many routes are bolted with PDs in mind--Tuna Town, and the new first or second bolt on KMITJ, in fact, come to mind as a biner-breaker (while a quicklink fit there perfectly). Also those broken hooks at the top of some Undertow routes are going to be hella dangerous to clean from without some kind of backup or replacement.

I am glad you have been contributing so much to the community Cletus, that's awesome (I too have packed countless bags of garbage and shit... yuck... and hundreds of hours/$ of volunteer work, bolting, and rebolting) and I offer heartfelt gratitude for that. Nonetheless, the style in which this was done was puerile at best--especially in light of the history of recurrent tat at popular sport crags as well as the recent PD fundraiser campaign. Not to mention, it is not going to make a dent in the overcrowding/unconscientiousness problem of RRG visitors during the peak seasons of March and October. My personal solution has been to go elsewhere (upwards of 85% of the RRG region remains utterly empty) and enjoy the "tourist/destination" crags during the other 10 months of the year.

[toad857]

I'm saddened by the state of the RED and it's decline in the two years I've been climbing here. In MY opinion the Gorge is at capacity, it can't handle many more climbers

So, things started getting lousy once you arrived? Sounds like the solution is for you to leave.

It's at capacity...but there's juuuussst enough room for him.

+1

[der uber]

I'm saddened by the state of the RED and it's decline in the two years I've been climbing here. In MY opinion the Gorge is at capacity, it can't handle many more climbers

So, things started getting lousy once you arrived? Sounds like the solution is for you to leave.

It's at capacity...but there's juuuussst enough room for him.

well played

[toad857]

If you want to talk to me face to face I'm totally for it. If you want to find me it's not difficult.

post a photo of yourself, maybe?

[dustonian]

It's a good thing there are no PDs at Solar Collector, it's really helped to keep the overcrowding/trash/poop/noise/erosion/dog problems down there. Oh wait.

[Cleveland]

Why not just get the police involved? Felony theft and trespassing is a pretty serious offense. You already have one person who fully admits to STEALING other peoples shit. I guess now we are going to have to start wearing colors and traveling from crag to crag fucking up other clicks! Also, if you are sick of the crowds and the stupid shit people do climb trad, it's way more awesome anyway!

[chosen1]

It's a good thing there are no PDs at Solar Collector, it's really helped to keep the overcrowding/trash/poop/noise/erosion/dog problems down there. Oh wait.

Yep. I don't think PD's are the problem, it's just the number of good routes. Cat's Demise has had PD's on it for a while and it's usually pretty quiet over there because the routes are fewer and spread out. So, in theory if we just chop most of the routes at the lode, it should thin out significantly...

[Toy]

Dustonian, I can assure you that Tuna Town was not bolted with Perma-Draws in mind.